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Down ~185 buy-ins in MTT's, is this normal?

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  • Down ~185 buy-ins in MTT's, is this normal?

    Hello, so I am a fairly solid cash player and have managed to 5x my bankroll playing cash games, but I have burnt through most of those winnings by playing tournaments.
    Currently I am down 180-190 buy-ins over a sample of 756 tournaments. Most of these tournaments were large field MTT's (between 200 and 1500 players), but some of them were smaller field SNG's

    I don't like making excuses, but from a chip EV perspective, I have definitely run extremely bad, at some point being 600bb below EV.
    And while I'm not that good at ICM spots, I don't make final tables punts nearly as often as most of my opponents do.

    I really enjoy playing tournaments and I feel they are much softer than cash games, but I'm feeling discouraged in continuing to play them when I see how much money I have lost.
    So I am curious if this is just a normal element of variance in tournaments (since in cash games most downswings simply manifest as not making a profit or being down a couple of buy-ins over certain samples), or if I'm just not good at tournaments, or if it's both.

  • #2
    They're entirely different games with entirely different skill sets required. MTTs you're playing at multiple stack depths, there are antes, there is no rake, etc etc. Deep stack play and fundamental concepts are similar but if you're going to play MTTs you need to study MTTs.

    To understand the variance, I would play with the calculators at . I plugged it in for 800 player fields, $50 buy ins, 30% ROI, and your results are definitely possible if not super likely if your ROI is 30%.


    • Daniel47
      Daniel47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the reply, I do understand the difference between cash and tournaments and I do study tournament strategy with ICMizer but it's not easy studying the difficult final table spots since they don't come up very often. Do you have any tips for studying those spots?

    • Dilly
      Dilly commented
      Editing a comment
      I do not lol, I don't really study MTTs personally, but I would guess it just comes down to studying a tool like HRC a ton, there's probably good content on PC as well, and there definitely are some sharp MTT players in the forum and Discord who can help you