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Why are tournaments not played like I have been taught?

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  • Why are tournaments not played like I have been taught?

    I have been studying a ton to learn tournament poker. I have watched and did very well on the video tutorials on pokercoaching and I have watched hundreds of hours of tournament streams and covering the reveled hole cards and playing like i was one player to learn hand reading and bet sizing etc. I know my "local" $50-$100 tournament buy-ins attract not to many competent players where people are calling with any two and calling raises with anything and not playing like I have learned. So I decided to try a deepstacks tournament at the Venetian and I thought I would see more "standard play." Very first hand UTG opens 6x BB. 5 callers! So my first thought is that this is no different than my local tournament. These kind of big initial raises with several callers happened frequently in the first hour. So I decide to play tight until I see further how these people are playing and that same kind of play continues where players are always raising 5-6x BB, then making C-bets pot size and other very non-standard bet sizing. So, I end up losing all my chips being ahead on flop and turn and just donkeys getting lucky on me when they hit a runner runner. I am not complaining about bad beats as it is mathematically going to happen, but I am wondering what kind of tournament do I have to play to start seeing play like I have been learning. Is this standard for very early in a tournament? Do I just have to survive getting a bad beat early on and play very tight for multiple levels before I see the play like I have been learning???

  • #2
    My guess is because you were watching online tournaments, analyses and hand reviews and “online” is really different than “live” ??

    Comment


    • #3
      Big difference between live and online as Borki said, and it's hard to say. I don't play live MTTs but JL and others have led me to believe that there are bad recs up to relatively high stakes, the breakout of recs to better players just shifts as you move up. Every game is going to be different so there's no hard threshold of where a game will start or stop having some type of play.

      But the thing to focus on is -- why do you want to see more play like what you've been learning? The last thing you want is competent opponents. If you're local MTT is really $50-$100 and everyone is really raising/calling with ATC for 6BB you have a honey pot, just play good cards and print money

      Comment


      • mct
        mct commented
        Editing a comment
        The main answer to I know how to play against these bad players and I wanted to find places to practice against competent opponents

    • #4
      online and live are very different animals . live you need to feel comfortable wih the buyin. live i will not bluff often but i will bet big vor value for instance . i have seen very poor players playing 1500 euro tournaments. live i will almost only 3bet linear and play pretty straightforward until the later stages , the last thing you want to do on live local tournaments is bluffing off your stack in marginal spots

      Comment


      • mct
        mct commented
        Editing a comment
        I am only talking live tournaments. I am always comfortable with the buy-in. So I guess I hear you saying is that I still have to play kind of straight forward in early stages of tournaments and survive bad beats, then I will see more spots later in tournaments. Just so frustrating to 3-bet with a premium and still get called by 4 people. Seems like trying to isolate early in a tournament is hard to accomplish even at the $1500 buy-in level.

      • Dilly
        Dilly commented
        Editing a comment
        If you regularly 3-bet with premium hands and get called by 4 people with hands they should not be calling with, you should be overjoyed. That means you're going to be playing huge pots, multi-way, where you put in 20% of the money, and have more than 20% equity. You're going to get coolered sometimes by junky hands that got there, but you're going to be winning way more than you are loosing in the long run. It's possible you're looking at too small a sample size which is near unavoidable at live MTTs, you need to be playing a ton of volume.

        I don't understand why you think you need to find places to practice against competent opponents, if you don't think there are many competent opponents in your game. If you have games with a lot of weaker players, study how to beat those weak players, and print money, easy game.

        Take this all with a grain of salt because I don't play MTTs but every coach on PC have repeatedly said things that go against "play kind of straightforward in early stages of tournaments and survive bad beats." Meaning no offense but it seems like the issue is in how you think about the game

    • #5
      The reason in my eyes is that your being taught to play optimally or well but your competition is not. Consequently you have to adjust. Villains are opening wider, betting poorly, calling too much and under bluffing.


      Learn the adjustments by asking specific questions.

      Comment


      • #6
        Reading your comments I get the idea that most of the people at your table are opening/calling too wide. The adjustment for this is too play tighter and play better cards than they do. JL said that like million times. Of course you will lose every now and then... even 72o beats 1 to 2 times out of 10 pocket AA. If you are properly bankrolled, put the volume in and it will be ok at the long run. And of it’s not - there is some serious problem with your game, because those kind of opponents are the easiest to win against. Good luck 👍😉

        Comment


        • alma holzhertin
          alma holzhertin commented
          Editing a comment
          By putting in volume, only casinos benefit.

      • #7
        No. This is not true.
        1st of all the casino always wins. Even if you play just 1 hand 😀 The casino will always have a profit, but we don’t care about that. We care about how we profit. We want to be “a winning poker player”. So what we need to do is:
        1. Find a game that we can beat, a game where we have an edge over our opponents
        2. Be properly bankrolled for that game
        3. Play it a ton (means put the volume)
        That’s it. That’s all we need to do. So straightforward, so uncomplicated, so simple....so hard!

        Comment


        • #8
          That's what they want you to think. Anyway poker is now a game of nerds who try to memorise things. Solver is going to kill it.
          Last edited by alma holzhertin; 03-01-2021, 12:44 AM.

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          • #9
            What is your point here? There are no poker players who leave the casino with profit? I think a lot of the coaches here will strongly disagree with that 😀

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            • #10
              Originally posted by alma holzhertin View Post
              That's what they want you to think. Anyway poker is now a game of nerds who try to memorise things. Solver is going to kill it.
              Why are you on a forum about poker coaching if this is how you feel? Go play some chess.

              Comment


              • alma holzhertin
                alma holzhertin commented
                Editing a comment
                you think this a forum about poker ? no, its a forum about people.
                Last edited by alma holzhertin; 03-02-2021, 02:18 AM.

            • #11
              And in response to the initial topic, If your opponents are going to play this way you simply have to adjust in a way to beat them. Which it sounds like you did. Just understand that they are ramping the variance up for themselves and you just have to win all the chips with a strong range. GL!

              Comment


              • #12
                Thanks for all the responses. Since I first posted, I signed up for the premium package and finished the entire tournament course and lots of other premium classes, whereas before only had the standard package. Clarified some areas, but I think my main problem is that I do not get to play enough. I have the time to study and I have a proper bankroll but no where to use it. I listened to JL about playing on unregulated sites for "practice only" and I may have to start doing that. If any US players have a suggestion on what unregulated sites they like to play on where (what buy-in levels) they feel like they are getting good practice, I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks

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