3 barrels at live games

[Anya_K]

I’m so confused. I used to play tighter and it worked just fine. My win rate for 1/3 was 15bb/hr for about 2k hours. Now I started to study and I’m just losing every session. I play my range, 3 barrel when I think it’s needed and I’m getting called about 80% of the time. Or at least it seems like it. Example.

JTss bb $200 eff 1/3
MP limps. I would normally x because I’m oop. I make it $13. He calls. Flop KK3 with a spade. I bet $10 and he calls.
Turn Qr.
Bet $25, calls.
River 7.
Bet $100.

Calls with A5o.

And if I’m in a similar spot and betting for value the same way I’m getting no action. I’m very confused if I’m doing something wrong.

I used to just sit and wait for a hand and not put a chip in the pot without a strong draw when the board is not paired 😄 And I did amazingly good in that 1/3 game. Now I booked pretty big losses for 6 sessions and small wins for 3 for the last 9.

[Anya_K]

JL keeps saying “open smaller”. Well ok. I open $10. I get 6 callers. How does this help? I used to open $12-15 and it worked much better. That’s another issue. So. Everyone opens $15 and if I call I’m paying a higher price. If they call they pay 30% less. I don’t get 3b a lot in those games. What’s the point of opening $10 ($8, $9, whatever)?

[TB27]

JL keeps saying “open smaller”. Well ok. I open $10. I get 6 callers. How does this help? I used to open $12-15 and it worked much better. That’s another issue. So. Everyone opens $15 and if I call I’m paying a higher price. If they call they pay 30% less. I don’t get 3b a lot in those games. What’s the point of opening $10 ($8, $9, whatever)?

The intent with opening smaller is making more manageable and maneuverable pots post flop. Generally, larger pots are more contested and harder to get people to fold on. We are supposed to be able to pick up more small pots that belong to no one, and make it easier to fold if we face things like check raises if we aren't too invested. This is especially helpful at low stakes as check raises tend to be value heavy with virtually no c/r bluffs.

That being said, sometimes you need to adjust to your opponents, your poker room, and your specific table. You can't expect to do the same thing on all boards against different opponents. I'd say on the JT hand you learned a valuable lesson about your opponent, as apparently he is an extreme calling station. Next time don't be afraid of betting your K on KK3 - or any other nuttish hand for that matter.

Without more data I can't tell you what you are "doing wrong." Are you giving off obvious tells? Are you uncomfortable betting when you don't have a hand and other players can see it? Are you using a different bet size with value hands vs bluffs? It could also be that you are just remembering the failures to get value instead of the times where you succeed in getting value (the human brain is good at seeing negative results more frequently than positive results).

[AJH914]

I think it's important to define a goal here. Why did you choose to come study at Poker Coaching? You're crushing your existing game. Do you want to move up in stakes? It certainly seems reasonable based on your success.

Most of the content taught here is based on game theory optimal principles. It's necessary at high stakes - not necessary at 1/3. You'll make much more money with exploitative lines. What's the exploit here? Bluff less as players are more likely to call. I haven't played live since before the pandemic, but I'll say I've slowed down my triple barrels online as people call too often.

I'd also recommend you check out the content from Evan Jarvis as most of his material is from 1/3. The preflop raise size is a greatly debated topic but Evan will often tell you to go with what's "normal" for your table. If you're playing a very tight range (which you can and win these games) then opening to $10-12 or even $15 shouldn't be a problem. If you're called you're likely way ahead.

[JFletch2323]

My win rate for 1/3 was 15bb/hr for about 2k hours.

That's $45 an hour. If you're really winning at that rate playing one way, I wouldn't mess with it.

I am wondering if that's a typo or something, because it's probably like 25 hands an hour live, so that is a win rate of 60 BBs per 100 hands.