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Am I the Only One that Thinks This is Lesson is Really Bad?

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  • Am I the Only One that Thinks This is Lesson is Really Bad?

    HU and maybe even with only the Bu behind I get the flop move but with the Bu and both blinds in their I'm folding every time to the donk lead whether I believe he has anything or not.

    https://pokercoaching.com/quizzes-view/?id=927

  • #2
    I watched it yesterday and was going to reply agreeing with you and that I would also fold to the flop donk bet. Then when i replayed the quiz, I changed my mind and think raising on the flop is ok. If villain did not donk flop, would you bet? If so then I think it is ok to raise when he does donk. Maybe a fold is best when there are four players in the pot
    I find it useful to play Alex quizzes at 1.5x speed.

    Comment


    • kkep
      kkep commented
      Editing a comment
      I think there is a difference between c-betting and raising a donk bet with 2 players and the donk bettor acting after we raise. My c-bet is going to be less than my raise and the Q is going to be in all 3 V's ranges. I actually wouldn't c-bet (range) on that flop with 88 four handed. HU yes, 3 handed, maybe.

  • #3
    I think when anyone has a queen you loose one bet anyway. I wouldnt fold to one bet. So then its better to be the agressor i think because by checking (or calling if he donks) you essentially give up the hand. While it could be the case nobody has the Q and if you check or only call the donkbet any overcard is a disaster.
    So in this case i think a raise (essentially a cbet) is ok. Its really his style too, i think alex has got a pretty good sense whats going on and can make unusual plays that do work.
    good tip about the 1.5speed

    Comment


    • #4
      I actually enjoyed this quiz, I like the way AF thinks through the situation.

      Have you checked your database for these spots? What hands did the villain actually turn up with?

      My MTT database is tiny, but I'm going to have a look at similar situations in cash games to see if this is true.

      Comment


      • PokerShaman
        PokerShaman commented
        Editing a comment
        Evidence-based analysis -- what a concept!

    • #5
      Clearly my current cash database is nowhere near big enough.

      I filtered for hands that were 3-bet preflop and the villain donked ~25% pot on the flop (and the hand went to showdown so we actually know what they had) and out of ~150k hands I found 1 example.

      No doubt AF has many millions of hands available to him so I have to trust what he says due to lack of evidence to the contrary.

      For what it's worth, in the hand I found, the SB lead with 82o on 992r after flatting a BTN open and then a BB 4x 3bet in a 5nl game. Make of that what you will...

      Comment


      • kkep
        kkep commented
        Editing a comment
        I have zero using this filter across both cash and tournaments which is probably somehow wrong - (Maximum Raise 3Bet) AND ((Players Dealt Into Hand Between 2 and 9) AND (Players Seeing Flop Between 2 and 4)) AND (Bet Flop Donk Bet) AND (Flop Raise Type Raised Donk Bet)

      • LondonImp
        LondonImp commented
        Editing a comment
        It looks to me like it's the last two filters that are messing it up.

        You searching for hands where you donk bet, and when you raised someone else's donk bet. This isn't possible.

    • #6
      kkep This is the filter I used:

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Filter capture.JPG
Views:	42
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	40626

      This doesn't filter by how many people see the flop, but already I'm down to just 1 result. An additional filter could be added if the above produces sufficient results already.

      Comment


      • PokerShaman
        PokerShaman commented
        Editing a comment
        For 99,000 cash games hands, I don't have any hits for this filter.

        I took out the "went to showdown" part (because I play a lot on Ignition, and have a separate database of hand histories with revealed hole cards) and I still didn't get any hits.

    • #7
      I actually played it the same way post flop, with a pocket 8 I would at least least see a turn if I get a set. Preflop I only bet 2BB as thats my standard betting size. To be honest I love his quizzes the most, as I am quite nitty and his quizzes opens my mind to when its a good time to go aggressive.

      Comment


      • #8
        Ironicaly , the sis actually a quiz I do understand. stopped doing the quizzes long time ago

        Comment

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