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Tourneys or cash games?

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  • CrazyEddie Reloaded
    replied
    So 30BB is the make or break , that explains how people play so many tables. Early stages are a waste of time anyway. So we register late when everyone dwindles down to 30BB.

    Leave a comment:


  • kkep
    commented on 's reply
    So I had enough right offs in previous years that I didn't need to bother with gambling losses. I suspect this year is going to be different because of this COVID and my working situation. But I think you can only right off gambling losses to offset gambling wins. Traveling Pros did get to deduct expenses too (that may have changed). I know that the new tax law in 2018 or whenever effected 'professional gamblers' but I don't know to what extent.

  • Dilly
    commented on 's reply
    I would say that's probably true. Even if you are cashing out $5K+ like Kkep said they can't actually prove how much of that is profit since they don't track buy ins. I guess in theory if the casino reports a certain amount of $5K+ cashouts to the IRS, and you claim nothing on your taxes it could get flagged....are you required to claim losses if you're not profitable? If you are that could be an issue.....what's to stop someone who works full time job, also claiming income from poker, and then some years they just happen to lose enough to bring their taxable income into a lower tax bracket? I swear I'm not sitting here brainstorming tax evasion :P

  • kkep
    commented on 's reply
    Yes as Dilly said Casino's here report winnings over $5000 but some of us wink wink have plenty of losing stubs to write those off

    I have to claim around $15,000 whenever I get around to doing my taxes this year but I'm guessing I can find at least $10,000 in loses
    to help offset that and all those little wins in-between remain a secret.

    Casino's here don't monitor cash games. At least not at the stakes I play. They have no idea how much we buy in for so they can't force us to claim the money we cash out for. For all they know we could be cashing out for $7000 but fired several bullets at a table for $10,000.

  • allin
    replied
    Interesting Dilly - based on that then I'd assume it's a virtual impossibility for any authority to know how much a non-high-roller cash player is winning, or even if he's winning at all?

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  • Dilly
    commented on 's reply
    *DISCLAIMER* I am not advising anybody do anything like tax evasion. But, the casinos do attempt to track significant cash winning, at least at Borgata they do. They record it any time you cash out $5K+ at the cage

  • allin
    replied
    Another big negative on tournaments if you're in the US would be having to pay taxes. Or do the casinos there monitor cash game players winnings? Not residing in the 'Land of the Free' myself I'm not sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turbulence
    commented on 's reply
    this is true - but you can't win an MTT in the early stages, and that is where a lot of cash players fall down. Knowing how to navigate the mid to late stages with less than 30bbs is how you make money playing MTTs because that is what you will have most of the time.

  • allin
    replied
    "cash won't prepare u for mtt." Actually the early stages of a tournament are almost identical to cash games.

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  • CrazyEddie Reloaded
    commented on 's reply
    cash won't prepare u for mtt. Tournaments alot of nuances. u need to be pretty sharp ... But if already winning $, why bother

    I never dreamed of holding up trophy ... fall down crying silly
    Last edited by CrazyEddie Reloaded; 06-29-2020, 03:14 AM.

  • allin
    replied
    Some interesting responses. Maybe the wisest course for those who want to play tourneys is to do what JL himself seems to have done, which is become a pro at cash games first while taking occasional shots at tourneys. He was saying a while back that he was playing twelve hours a day at the Bellagio and making about $120/hr at 5/10 and $140/hr (?) at 10/20. Personally I have zero overhead playing cash - the casino is close by so I walk, and I even take my own bottled water. And I invest all my winnings - my financial advisor's recommendations are up an average of 65% over the last 18 months, even after the Covid crash.

    Leave a comment:


  • PokerShaman
    replied
    Cash games are predatory hustles in a way that tournaments simply are not.Cash game regs of necessity are always looking out for the weaker players, the unguardedly splashy ones, the whales, and so on. A person might have severe moral qualms about developing the skills to excel in cash games. Tournaments do not have this problem.

    Tournaments have the significant disadvantage of being extremely high variance. A typical player is going to bust out for no return at all 90% of the time, and only rarely win enough money to even come close to making up their regular losses. Overall profit in tournaments comes from the top spots, and those are difficult for even the good players to hit. A reasonable cash game bankroll might be as small as 20 buy-ins; a tournament bankroll has to be something on the order of two hundred buy-ins.

    If more than money matters to you, success in cash games generally goes unrecognized. For the most part, the celebrities in poker are the people who win tournaments. If you want recognition, reputation, and the benefits that come with them (sponsorships, training site gigs, coaching, etc.) the way to go is to play tournaments -- unless you do something else to build a reputation, like writing, blogging, vlogging, commentating on streams, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonImp
    replied
    I used to play tourneys casually a few years back, but only at the very small stakes. My best result was taking down the Pokerstars $7.50 bounty builder for ~$2k which is very small for most people, but the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment is greater than anything I have ever experienced grinding cash games.

    If I had the time I would much prefer to focus on MTTs, but I've only got a couple of hours a day and so they just don't work for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • CrazyEddie Reloaded
    commented on 's reply
    I do better now in cash games than before... not good enough to cash $$ / hr. When I do, if I do ... maybe I stop playing tourneys myself ?

    Maybe not

  • CrazyEddie Reloaded
    replied
    often wondered why people play tourneys myself

    believe many people who play tourney can't beat cash

    cash seems to be a bigger grind ..

    if I'm a losing player left and right, maybe tourneys are more exciting ??? I don't even know why I play anymore
    Last edited by CrazyEddie Reloaded; 06-28-2020, 08:37 AM.

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  • Turbulence
    replied
    I'd have never called myself a MTT pro, semi pro a few times in between full-time jobs. But for me the attraction was:-
    - having a target / definite end goal i.e. makaing FTs and top 3 finish
    - the buzz of 'winning' a tournament (the downside to this is if you finish anywhere but 1st there is always a bit of disappointment)
    - The general field is softer than online cash at similar stake level
    - the chance of a one off 'big' score
    - the variable strategies depending on stack size, stage of the tournament ect

    I have recently switched to cash for all the reasons you stated i.e. time constraints, variance ect but at some point will go back to MTTs or at least play a mixture of both once I have built a BR back up.

    Leave a comment:


  • allin
    started a topic Tourneys or cash games?

    Tourneys or cash games?

    Just curious, as this site seems to have a strong bias towards tourneys. Compared to cash games, tourneys have massive overheads, expensive entry fees, huge variance and annoying time constraints (depending on your cards, you could be playing for three days or 30 minutes.) I personally only play cash, and pre-covid was averaging about $80/hr (average has been steadily creeping upward.) I personally know several cash game pros making a similar or even higher amount, and no tourney pros apart from the few big names everyone else has heard of. So tourney pros - what's the attraction please?
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