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Defending Against Wide Three Bets

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  • Defending Against Wide Three Bets

    I've been stuck facing an opponent a lot recently who has 14% three bet. This is a long and rambling post where I work through it like it was a homework assignment. Feedback is appreciated if you can make it any/all of the way through.

    Sample scenario. We are in HJ opening this range per 6 max online charts:



    Cutoff 3 bets to 9bb. This range is modeled off this particular villain. Note range is mostly linear with only low Ax suited used as bluffs. Yes, I think he three bets offsuit broadways at a good freqeuncy.



    Minimum defense frequency = 1 - 6(6+13.5) = 69%. This is a common scenario and I remember Fitzgerald stating on a recent quiz "exploit people who fold to 3bet greater than 60%". So this is good to memorize. So my defending range should look something like this. Note that we're not folding that many hands. I don't know that I open KTo and QTo as the charts indicate, but maybe I should. We're defending 71% of our range here folding out mostly the offsuit hands. Comparing the ranges in PokerCruncher we have 48% equity, certainly good based on the pots odds offered.



    We can't defend simply by flatting, we need some four bet range. I'm not the best at constructing a balanced range here, so I'll take any feedback on appropriate ratios and 4 bet candidates. We're 4 betting 28% of the time we continue. High but may be appropriate vs. this player type.




    Should we 4 bet to 24bb (per my knowledge 2-2.5x is reasonable) villain needs to defend 1 - 15(15+34.5) = 70% of his range. This is close here. Notice villain SHOULD defend with hands as poor as 77 and JTs. I would guarantee villain overfolds in this spot perhaps making an even higher 4 bet frequency profitable.





    Apologies if that came off as the ramblings of a mad man. In short, it appears that four betting at a high frequency against this player type may be +EV. If you made it this far what are your thoughts?

  • #2
    In 6 max a good reg should be 3 betting 13-15% as a headline figure BUT be careful about only reading the headline figure. As his 3 betting frequency will probably differ greatly depending on positions eg SB v BTN will be 17% but BB v LJ only 6%.

    As for the rest of the post you are on the right lines for sure, and you need to have a clearly defined 'response to 3 bet strategy' this really makes life a lot easier at the tables.
    1. define it for each position and where you are IP or OOP - you can defend slightly wide IP and be a bit tighter OOP
    2. defining your 4 bet bluff candidates - basically use the hands that are on the cusp of your calling range i.e. not good enough to call but too good to fold. Personally I use a mix of blocker hands + a few additional for board coverage / post flop play-ability.

    This is my CO response to 3 bet strategy, I don't stick to it 100%, obviously makes adjustments depending on opponent:-

    Click image for larger version

Name:	CO facing 3 bet.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	257.2 KB
ID:	38821

    Comment


    • AJH914
      AJH914 commented
      Editing a comment
      Good analysis. I was on the correct track. One change is I was defending much wider against a 14% three bet. Perhaps I'm confusing concepts. Does minimum defense frequency apply here? Let's look at the OOP example. CO raises to 3bb, Button raises to 9bb. MDF = 1 - (6/(6+13.5) = 69%. Clearly against a 2% 3 bet we tighten up but against 14% we should probably be at or above this number. Am I correctly applying this concept?

  • #3
    AJH914 - I can't see any of the ranges that you've posted. Just the text.

    Is that just me?

    Comment


    • Dilly
      Dilly commented
      Editing a comment
      I can't see em either

    • bigfish
      bigfish commented
      Editing a comment
      Me neither

    • AJH914
      AJH914 commented
      Editing a comment
      Looks ok over here. I copied and pasted the images from an email and now I'm thinking that's the problem. I'll recreate below.

  • #4
    Recreating to fix range images...

    I've been stuck facing an opponent recently who has 14% three bet. This is a huge number at the 10nl level. This is a long and rambling post where I work through it like it was a homework assignment. Feedback is appreciated if you can make it any/all of the way through.

    Sample scenario. We are in HJ opening this range per 6 max online charts:



    Cutoff 3 bets to 9bb. This range is modeled off this particular villain. Note range is mostly linear with only low Ax suited used as bluffs. Yes, I think he three bets offsuit broadways at a high frequency.


    Minimum defense frequency = 1 - 6(6+13.5) = 69%. This is a common scenario and I remember Fitzgerald stating on a recent quiz "exploit people who fold to 3bet greater than 60%". So this is good to memorize. So my defending range should look something like this. Note that we're not folding that many hands. I don't know that I open KTo and QTo as the charts indicate, but maybe I should. We're defending 71% of our range here folding out mostly the offsuit hands. Comparing the ranges in PokerCruncher we have 48% equity, certainly good based on the pots odds offered.



    We can't defend simply by flatting, we need some four bet range. I'm not the best at constructing a balanced range here, so I'll take any feedback on appropriate ratios and 4 bet candidates. We're 4 betting 28% of the time we continue. High but may be appropriate vs. this player type.



    Should we 4 bet to 24bb (per my knowledge 2-2.5x is reasonable) villain needs to defend 1 - 15(15+34.5) = 70% of his range. This is close here. Notice villain SHOULD defend with hands as poor as 77 and JTs. I would guarantee villain overfolds in this spot perhaps making an even higher 4 bet frequency profitable.


    In short, it appears that four betting at a high frequency against this player type may be +EV. If you made it this far what are your thoughts?

    Comment


    • Turbulence
      Turbulence commented
      Editing a comment
      Just a couple of tweaks I'd recommend with your 4 betting range:-
      1. Fold the A2 & A3s and 4 bet the A4s & A5s
      2. Call with either 44 or 76s (better board coverage and easy to play post flop)
      3. 4 bet KQo and K9s - you want blockers to KK and AK not just the top Ax in his range and K9s is not great OOP as a call as it is too gappy and often dominated.

      I think this will also balance you range a bit better.

  • #5
    In theory we should defend at MDF, but that's assuming the villain will play perfectly from then on.

    If we defend tighter than MDF would dictate is the villain going to adapt post flop by over-folding his usual range to our artificially tight one? I'd say almost certainly not.

    The fact is if we defend wide we are going to playing a large pot, out of position, without the initiative. This is a recipe for getting stacked over and over again.

    We are not playing GTO machines, we are playing people. And at the micro/low stakes, possibly not very good people too.

    The better exploit against people who are 3betting a lot is to tighten your opening range. That way we can defend correctly, without the risk of exploitation, and have the far superior range. This is a great step towards countering the disadvantage of being out of position.

    Comment


    • AJH914
      AJH914 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks, I’m probably overthinking this one.

  • #6
    Originally posted by LondonImp View Post
    The better exploit against people who are 3betting a lot is to tighten your opening range. That way we can defend correctly, without the risk of exploitation, and have the far superior range. This is a great step towards countering the disadvantage of being out of position.
    Tightening our opening range is half of it. The other half is: within that tightened opening range, widen our 4-betting range.

    If the villain is three-betting too much, they are missing flops too often. It is better to put them in the situation of having to fold their misses to our flop c-bet than to let them put us in that same situation.

    Comment

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