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  • I suck

    I love poker and just wanted to share my struggles. I've been doing quizzes like crazy, studying. And I suck online. Can't play live because COVID, and I officially SUCK online. No amount of studying or playing is changing it... I am a losing player. I determined not to be a losing player. So I'm really not sure what to do at this point other than a. quit b. ? . I will not continue to give money to others out of some misplaced sense of pride, but I REALLY love playing poker, even if I suck online compared to live. Not really sure what to do at this point. Down $120 in the last 2 months which is quite frustrating. Anyways if all of the learning and studying is not doing me any good, maybe I am not even cut out for small stakes? Who knows. Today lost $50 with opponent on a 2 outer, another 2 outer, and lost last $20 when opponent had a 3 outer. NOT blaming this on variance though... over the long haul, my losing comes down to me. Just not sure where to go at this point.

  • #2
    On which site are you Playing?

    Cg or mtt or sng ?

    Which stakes ?

    What is Your online life samplesize ?

    Online you can only be a winning Player if you are learning and improving constantly even on lower stakes
    Life depending on your opponents skills you could be a winning Player without studying hard

    Remember 95 % are losing players

    You have to study hard over a long time to stay ahead the courve for online and medium + stakes life

    Also you need to be bankrolled very comfortably

    Volume Kills Variance


    • Fromfishtoshark
      Fromfishtoshark commented
      Editing a comment
      I replied to this but it got deleted.
      Global poker.
      Mainly cash, .1/.2 and .25/.50.
      Some sit and gos, $3, $6, $10.
      Occassional MTT. My favorites but I don't play them as much as I would like.
      Sample size... less than 10k hands.

  • #3
    Ironically I think micro and low stakes can be more difficult (certainly in the short term) than the higher stakes because of the greater number of bad players that generate a higher variance game. The last couple of months I came back to poker after nearly a year away from the tables (online and live) and as I no longer had a BR have started over from scratch with $300. I've recently switch from MTTs to 5NL cash because $300 just wasn't enough for MTTs. I am a better than average player with a decent core strategy (developed from here) but have really struggled initially at these low stakes but am now starting to win. Yesterdays session is a perfect example, I played 2000 hands of 5NL; after 500hands I was 3 buy-ins up or 300bbs up; the next 750 hands I lost 9 buy-ins! at least 3 of which were my own mistakes the rest I either got cooler-ed or sucked out on the river; after a break and a reset I played another 750hands and won 9 buy-ins back and finished the day 3 buy-ins up! My point is a) a good player with good strategy will eventually come out on top b) playing against a lot of bad players creates huge swings in the short term, you just have to ride it out c) you need the BR, patience, and discipline to become a long-term winning player. There is no short cut to winning big online.


    • PokerShaman
      PokerShaman commented
      Editing a comment
      It isn't the wild, gamb00ly play of the bad players at low stakes that make them hard to beat; it's the rake. 5% with a $3 cap may as well be an uncapped 5% rake if you are playing 10NL or below. Even at 25 NL such a rack will not reach its cap except in the very largest pots between deep-stacked players.

      A lot of these high-variance "coolers" come when players push relatively thin edges in games where they otherwise have a substantial skill advantage. Many players don't realize that it is okay to pass up an opportunity to play for stacks with a small edge in favor of waiting for a a better chance to stack the fun players.

      We mock Old Man Coffee, but the fact of the matter is that the reason he comes in every day with his newspaper crossword puzzle is that he wins with surprising consistency.

  • #4
    How many hands have you played online? How many hours have you spent studying? What have you studied during that time?

    First step is take your self talk, and level it up. Never say I suck. Tell yourself you're skills aren't developed to the level you need them to be at, to get the results you're looking for, then go develop those skills.

    Keep in mind the situation, micro stakes online are wayyyyyyyyyy tougher than live 1/2 and probably most live 2/5. It sounds crazy but live low stakes cash players are the literal worst players in the game, you can beat those games pretty decently with a light grasp of a few concepts. It's not surprising to be a decent winning player live then get crushed in the online micros,

    You don't want to blame variance, but be realistic. If you haven't played 50K+ hands you have no idea how much you're winning or losing, and even that is a small sample size. Also you can't get discouraged by losing $120 in two months, that's literally nothing.

    Specific content - study Just GTOs online 6Max course, it's a very different strategy from the CGMC, it's for tough games, and in my experience until you're a much stronger player, the micros fit the bill.

    Also be honest with yourself about committing or quitting. How much time do you have to dedicate to studying and playing? There's no hard rule, but I would say if you can't dedicate 20h/week, you're going to have a hard time improving at any reasonable rate.


    • Guido
      Guido commented
      Editing a comment
      Good Post, elliot roe said his Superstar clients study 7-12 hours a week (and if I remember correctly they play roughly 30-40 hours) , but they study very efficiently
      Last edited by Guido; 06-09-2020, 11:05 AM.

    • Dilly
      Dilly commented
      Editing a comment
      Guido that makes sense, probably easier to start at 20h/week and then cut it down as you improve efficiency

    • Fromfishtoshark
      Fromfishtoshark commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks. Terrific post.
      No idea how many hands online as the site I use doesn't let you track. On a good week over 500 hands. On a bad week less.
      I'm definitely not close to 50k hands. At most 10k hands online and that is probably high.
      Studying... books and videos by Jonathan little mainly. Also a statistics book I found on Amazon.
      I'll check out the 6 max course.
      I also do not study close to 20h per week at all at this point.

  • #5
    If you are not using the Range Charts then I suggest you do and adjust depending on the player type. Try and find out where you are losing the most - Flop, Turn, River. Maybe you are paying off too light and need to fold to large raises or re-raises on Turn & River. Online is so much harder than Live as you are seeing a lot more hands and players are multi tabling only continuing when they have a hand. Be realistic with how much you expect to win as a winning player is only winning say 15bb's per 100 hands. You say that you are down $120 over 2 months, this sounds very small, also how many bb's is this? I find Online mentally exhausting some days, there are days when all your hands get beat by a better hand, the goal should be to lose as little as possible on these days and just focus on playing a solid winning strategy. Most players are using a HUD so they will have stats on you, so if you are not using a HUD then going to be hard for you spot the different player types. BUT IT IS BLOODY TOUGH ONLINE!!! I play 50NL and for the month of May i was winning at 55bb's per 100 hands and June is polar opposite and i am down to winning at 7bb's per 100 hands over 28,000 hands total. I have had a lot of bad beats this month BUT there are quite a few times that i have just been the WHALE and paid off in spots I should just fold! Really need to be disciplined online! If you are playing Live $1/$2 thyen I recommend playing 2 x Tables of 50NL at a time and just focus on playing good disciplined poker, play around 20% of all hands, try not to limp definitely do not be the first limper. I do find a LOT of NITS who limp AA, KK & AK and just waiting to hit a big hand or if the flop favours them wait for you to make a mistake, this month has been the worst for that!! But most times i lose the minimum except when i have say KK, QQ or JJ on an all low board and I am the PF aggressor and basically value own myself by the river!! anyway....good luck with it all.