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Can You Make Them Show?

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  • Can You Make Them Show?

    Rule question that definitely varies game to game.

    In a situation where a player is supposed to be first to show,(usually the bettor or last aggressor if it's a checked river, but some places I know it's earlier position if it checks through,) does that player have the option to muck?

    So if we're on the B and MP bets pre we call, bets flop we call, bets turn we call, checks through-- we wait to turn our cards over, if they choose to muck without seeing our cards, can we ask the dealer to turn their cards over? What if we show our cards then they muck, but they were supposed to show first, can we make the dealer turn them over? What about when a player is all in pre, if they muck their cards instead of turning them up, can we make the dealer turn them up?

    In the games I'm playing it's definitely the common move to just let people throw their cards in the muck, but I'm not sure if that's correct by the rules or even good etiquette....I have too many hands written down where they didn't show and I want that info lol.

  • #2
    Cash game, I don't think there is any right or ability to force a show.

    Tournament, my understanding is that when players are all in the cards should be turned up before the dealer puts another card on the board. If they are supposed to show based on previous action, I will wait until they do or they muck. There is some weird rule that allows players to request to see a folded hand at show down. A guy did that to me once and I about punched him in the face. It can get tricky based on who asks though. I think if the other player in the hand asks, then the folded hand is still live (so say he had 3rd pair and you called with 4th pair but he figured he was beat and folded, then asking to see his cards can lose you the hand). Personally, I find it rude and not conducive to creating an environment that people will enjoy. I think them giving up the pot is pretty good information on its own.

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    • #3
      Interesting. I have seen people get upset when they're the last aggressor, and on the river the caller makes them show first, then the caller shows the nuts, but it's not really a slow roll, the last aggressor has to show.

      Them mucking is definitely information, but not as valuable as knowing what kind of combos they bluff. It's super relevant information. If I bluff river, and they call and turn over a nut hand, and I muck, at low stakes they all assume I over-valued a strong but not nut hand. People at low stakes are astonished when I bluff and turn up a missed draw lol.

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      • #4
        Pretty sure if your involved with someone in a hand that goes to showdown and they try to muck you can make dealer show them,.Peter510 if you got angry because someone who had the right to do so asked to see your hand you should re-think playing poker, no one wants to be attacked or feel some type of way because you can't control your emotions the person did nothing wrong,Its apart of the game and if someone calls you they have every right to see your hand it is very valuable information to have and you payed to see that information.If i was playing live poker I would ask to see all day long don't bluff people if your too sensitive to show it when your get looked up, if you make one or two players show in a live game it might help you so people stop trying to bluff you as much and you can pickup more pots, at the end of the day most people are playing poker to make money not worry about someones feelings.

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        • Zeldafan55
          Zeldafan55 commented
          Editing a comment
          How is it an expression? you literally said ". There is some weird rule that allows players to request to see a folded hand at show down. A guy did that to me once and I about punched him in the face." I didnt assume anything I simply talked about about the information you gave us ... I've also reported you for your aggressive behaviour and calling me a pompous Jerk.

        • 1Peter510
          1Peter510 commented
          Editing a comment
          Report yourself for what you said to Londonimp about his post.

        • Dilly
          Dilly commented
          Editing a comment
          It's Valentine's Day boys, where's the love?? Plus we got a homework webinar today!! Seriously though, the back and forth has gotten a little heated today, myself included, I apologize if I've offended anyone, let's get back to constructive discussion and improving our games

      • #5
        In a tournament, if you're all in then you HAVE TO SHOW.

        Otherwise no.

        Even if you are the caller in the cash game the aggressor is within their rights to muck. But you know what? You can muck too and still win the hand and so you give away on information too. There's actually in an anecdote in 'Exploiting Poker Tells' (well it's one of those series at the very least) where the player calls knowing he can only win if the aggressor mucks.

        As a courtesy I will always show my hand if called. I want to be proud to show my bluffs too so I get paid off with my value hands!

        If I am the caller in a cash game though I will not sure my hand until the aggressor shows or mucks. Even with the nuts. I won't slow roll, I'll just turn mine over as soon as I've seen theirs.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by LondonImp View Post
          In a tournament, if you're all in then you HAVE TO SHOW.

          Otherwise no.

          Even if you are the caller in the cash game the aggressor is within their rights to muck. But you know what? You can muck too and still win the hand and so you give away on information too. There's actually in an anecdote in 'Exploiting Poker Tells' (well it's one of those series at the very least) where the player calls knowing he can only win if the aggressor mucks.

          As a courtesy I will always show my hand if called. I want to be proud to show my bluffs too so I get paid off with my value hands!

          If I am the caller in a cash game though I will not sure my hand until the aggressor shows or mucks. Even with the nuts. I won't slow roll, I'll just turn mine over as soon as I've seen theirs.
          This isnt true you can ask to see their cards when you call someone on the river in a cash game, you paid to see them

          Comment


          • 1Peter510
            1Peter510 commented
            Editing a comment
            It happened to me in a tournament. The thread you posted starts off with being in a tournament. We have already acknowledged that it can be done in a tournament. We have been disagreeing about it being in cash... i flipped through most of the thread and never saw where it flipped to discussing cash....

            How about your casino that forces cash hands to be shown down....

          • Zeldafan55
            Zeldafan55 commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey buttercup, quit being lazy and read the thread, you have a serious attitude problem, let's see a picture of mr mouth piece

          • 1Peter510
            1Peter510 commented
            Editing a comment
            Clearly you are just a troll. Wouldn't surprise me if this is crazyeddie's third profile after getting booted.

            I am done with you. I can't fix stupid. Have a good life.

        • #7
          Originally posted by Zeldafan55 View Post

          This isnt true you can ask to see their cards when you call someone on the river in a cash game, you paid to see them
          You haven't "paid to see them".

          You have bet on a possible outcome i.e. that you have the winning hand. When your opponent mucks you have the winning hand. You are then awarded the pot.

          Do you regularly say "well I'm priced in..." from the SB too?


          Anyway having looked into it a bit more I think the answer is that there is no definitive answer. It can vary from country to country, state to state, and even casino to casino. In a cash game it's probably best to ask the dealer for clarification on their interpretation of the rules before making your action, and in a tournament you can query the ruling with the tournament director.

          Comment


          • Dilly
            Dilly commented
            Editing a comment
            The casino to casino difference drives people crazy by me because the two most popular casinos have different rules on it lol

        • #8
          Originally posted by LondonImp View Post

          You haven't "paid to see them".

          You have bet on a possible outcome i.e. that you have the winning hand. When your opponent mucks you have the winning hand. You are then awarded the pot.

          Do you regularly say "well I'm priced in..." from the SB too?


          Anyway having looked into it a bit more I think the answer is that there is no definitive answer. It can vary from country to country, state to state, and even casino to casino. In a cash game it's probably best to ask the dealer for clarification on their interpretation of the rules before making your action, and in a tournament you can query the ruling with the tournament director.
          are u trolling me ?? you literally payed to see your opponents hand if he bets the river and you call , go ask any poker professional you can force the dealer to show

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