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A hand I played awful

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  • A hand I played awful

    25nl zone 6-max

    Villain starts the hand with $27 and I cover
    UTG (LJ) raises to .75
    I have KsKd in the BB and I 3bet to $1.70. This is nitty but I’m not here to lie, I still have the fear of running into AA when UTG raises. I feel people are mostly competent enough these days to where if I raise big they just call with everything but aces (and maybe even trap sometimes). However earlier in the session I 4bet all in preflop with KK and was called by queens when we’re about 80bb effective, so I have to break this habit. Basically I’m trying to play pot control and feel comfortable with my hand but I’m losing a lot of value.
    BB calls.
    FLOP:885 with two diamonds. I bet small. I could kid myself to say I was inducing but really I’m just uncomfortable OOP and slightly deep. I bet .75 and UTG raises small to $2.25. The one thing I feel I did good in this hand is this...I 3bet the flop, but my size was too small. I made it like $4.50 total. He calls. So now I feel pretty confident I’m ahead.
    TURN:8d-8s-5d-6c. So the flush draw bricks but now I make another mistake and only bet $1. Again playing in fear. Villain calls.
    RIVER:8d-8s-5d-6c-2d. So the flush draw comes in. I check. I’m not sure if betting or checking is better. Being out of position here sucks. Anyway I decide to check and villain bets $7.95, so kinda big in relation to the size of the pot. In zone you only 15 seconds per action so I quickly think about it, and I decide that with the king of diamonds blocker and the fact that he could conceivably value bet here with queens, plus the way I played this hand weakly makes it possible he’s bluffing and I call. Would you have called this river?
    I think my biggest mistake here is not firing a big bet on the turn. The small 3bet pre is obviously not good either.
    I figured, since im thinking this hand through anyway, why not think it out here to see if anyone else has things I’m not even considering myself. So, how would you guys have played this one?
    And when villain bets big on the river, what are you putting him on?
    Last edited by; 01-23-2020, 03:02 AM.

  • #2
    Your 3-bet preflop is waaaaay to small.

    If I am 3-betting OOP then I will make it 4x the raise with my whole 3-betting range. If he shoves I am calling with a big smile on my face and if he has AA then so what? We're likely to get paid off by JJ-QQ and AK. So we lose to 6 combos and beat 20 combos. Massive profit in the long run.

    The small flop bet is good. As the preflop 3-bettor on a paired board I would be betting small with my entire range. When he raises what could he have? I'd say this is likely with 99-JJ as well as his 8x hands. There are a bunch of draws available too. We are ahead of most of this range.

    I do not like your flop 3-bet. My issue with it is that I'm not convinced you're going to get called by much that you are ahead of. What are you representing with this bet? Either a premium overpair QQ+ or an 8 yourself. You could argue that you made it small to keep in his weaker hands, but you may have inadvertently given him the correct direct odds to chase his draws. I would prefer to flat-call his raise and then re-evaluate on the turn.

    What were you trying to accomplish with your $1 bet on the turn? Is this a blocker bet because you don't want to check and face a big raise from your opponent?

    On the river, you say it's possible that he's bluffing. What hands do you think he would be bluffing with that didn't get there? Ts9s maybe? I think the vast majority of his range here is premium. You've made it clear with your actions that you do have a hand you do not want to fold and so now you've given your opponent the chance to try and get max value from you.


    • #3
      So I felt like my 3bet on the flop was good because when he just calls, now I feel back in control of the hand, and since KK is likely to be good a lot of the time (how much 8x does villain open UTG?) I want to be in control, and also not have to play a guessing game on the turn and river if he bets twice. Keep in mind I’m aware I played this badly...I do normally raise bigger pre as well, and I stick to the same 4x OOP rule in general. And I certainly wouldn’t always raise a paired board like this, but since my bet and his raise was so small, I took that route this time.
      The turn I am not sure why I bet so small. Thinking it through now though is different when you have 15 seconds to decide what to do and you’re trying to figure the hand out. If I could go back (or even better, next time I’m in a similar spot) I’d like to fire something like 80% pot to punish the draws and put all his pocket pairs in a miserable spot.
      On the river it’s hard to decide what he has simply because this hand played out strangely. I can’t discount random bluffs once I check and I also can’t discount him betting with QQ-JJ once I show weakness on the turn/river. It did pass through my mind that he knows I have SOMETHING at least decent and still decided to bet, but within 15 seconds it’s sometimes hard to think it all through while the clock is racing. I think a well studied approach beforehand would help me a lot i in different spots where I already have a good idea what to do.
      Thanks for the feedback London. I’m assuming by your comments you would have folded the river. I think I just leveled myself this whole hand through.


      • 1Peter510
        1Peter510 commented
        Editing a comment
        On the flop you only have 2 combos of the nuts. He has 8 combos of nut hands. You are evaluating your turn raise based on the result. It was pretty bad to raise there. Fortunately for you he didn't realize your range of made hands is mostly over pairs that are not looking to play a huge pot. Had he realized, he could have just jammed it in there and you would have had to fold.

    • #4
      Just read my response back and it seems a tad rude - sorry mate, hope it didn't come across like that!

      From the LJ I would be opening A8s, K8s, 98s, 87s, and of course 88. So that gives me 15 combinations of 8x that I would be opening. Because you're 3-bet was so small I'd be calling with everything except my K8s most likely. This leaves me with 7 combinations that would've hit the 8 which I suppose is not a lot really.

      Your comments about the 15 second time limit and the importance of studying is absolutely correct. The reason we put in the hours is so we don't have to think it through at the table under pressure, we should just know what to do. Easier said than done though right?

      I hope I would've folded the river. I'm really trying to be less of a calling station on this street because it's probably the biggest leak in my game.


      • commented
        Editing a comment
        No worries, I didn't think it was rude at all

    • #5
      I haven't read the other posts yet so I am putting in my initial reaction.

      First thought preflop, your bet here can make sense with KK because you want action, but you are inviting him along with all his drawing hands. Since you will be out of position you want to charge more to see the flop. Make him pay for the advantage of position. You will only be up against AA about 3% of the time. Remind yourself of those things when you raise with KK. So, as you already know 3bet bigger. I would go to $3 at least and probably would go to $3.5 so he makes a mistake when he set mines.

      Flop bet, he has the nut advantage because you have 85s (2 combos) and he has 98s, 87s, 88, 55 (8 combos). So you want to bet small. You have the range advantage, so should bet frequently. If this were a normal 3bet pot, the pot would be like $7 so you could bet like $1.75-$2.00 as small. Because of the small raise size preflop, the pot is like $3.50 so I would go like $1.20.

      When he raises, you are at the top of your range but again he could have the nuts so all you can do is call. And probably just call down.

      As played, the turn doesn't likely change much. Not sure he raises the flop with 66; and then 97 and 74 should not be in his range. So I would bet about 1/3 pot, but could see and argument for betting 2/3 or so since he called your re-raise (which you should not have made).

      On the river, I don't know if a diamond draw on the flop just calls your re-raise. Clearly a diamond draw calls the small turn bet. So not sure how many flushes he has. Combined with you inviting a bluff, I would call. Still at the top of your range and he could play this way with JJ, TT, 99.


      • #6
        Flop 3bet makes no sense to me, but if you want to go that way and still have the lead, I think you should bet the river a decent amount. Your turn bet size + river check drastically caps your range.
        Given that, it probably makes sense to call as you induce bluffs in theory, although I don't think you win here enough to justify calling (based on population tendencies).

        I prefer betting the river 2/3s pot, and folding to a raise if that happens.


        • #7
          If you guys are curious, villain in this hand had AQ of diamonds