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$1/2 Live NL, River Decision with busted draw

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  • $1/2 Live NL, River Decision with busted draw

    V1- Straddle w/ ~$500 Very LAG. Pretty much always defends his straddle, really likes suited cards of any gap, and generally is probably seeing 60% of flops. Have played a fair amount of hours with him. Will bluff with air or very marginal hands.
    V2- BTN covers LAG, but less so than V1. Unknown save for the couple hours in this session. Seems competent, but also plays wide. Just won a monster pot after opening 78o from UTG1. Seems to play about any Ace and connected cards.

    Hero in CO w/ ~$600

    Pre-flop. V1 straddle to $5
    Fold to H $20, V1 call, V2 call

    Flop ($63)
    9c 8c 4c
    V1 chk, H $35, V2 short tank call, V1 quick call

    Turn ($168)
    chk around

    River ($168)
    V1 chk, H ?

    I'm convinced at this point that V1 has nothing or I think he would have fired the river after the turn checked around. He'll fire bluffs in these spots with J high.
    V2 I'm thinking has either the same busted draw as me or some middling pair. Given his affinity for connected cards, the six definitely could have helped him.

    What's your play on river after the turn checks around? If you are firing again, what sizing do you take?
    Do you think continuing to barrel turn on such a dry turn card would have made sense? If you barrel turn, what's your sizing?

  • #2
    I would give up on the river


    • #3
      I agree with kkep. Also, on a flop like that with your hand I'd bet much smaller, $15-20, same I'd bet with a made flush.


      • crux5259
        crux5259 commented
        Editing a comment
        I considered a down bet, but given the configuration I think a bigger bet makes sense even with the made flush. The board favors both opponents as far as two-pair, sets, and straight-draw combos, so I think a lot of people are going to see another card despite the monotone nature.

      • reeeeeeper
        reeeeeeper commented
        Editing a comment
        Exactly, so if a lot of people are going to see another card, why would you bet bigger now with nothing? Bet smaller now, bigger turn (if barreling).

      • kkep
        kkep commented
        Editing a comment
        I like a small bet too, it makes it easier to barrel the turn which I would have.

        We missed our draws on the river and we capped our range so they need to be calling quite wide.

        I think you need to bet the turn too. It keeps your range uncapped and now they start thinking about hands like
        TT - AA, sets to go with your FD's. It would be very hard for them to continue with rags and even if they do we likely
        have 14 clean outs. If we get called I probably still give up on that blank river, that happens sometimes....

        I would say an Ace would be a good bluff card whenever we bet flop and turn there as long as one of them doesn't
        have exactly the Ac but I suspect they would have raised with that.

    • #4
      The problem with your flop sizing is that it would put you in a very nasty spot if you were to get raised.

      Multiway and against opponents who ranges will hit this flop very hard I don't think a cbet is even compulsory. I would be very much looking to control the size of the pot and would probably check here, especially considering we don't have absolute position.

      People may disagree with that though.

      [EDIT: Yeah I'd give up on the river here, I hope.]


      • #5
        I would have checked the flop.

        Being multiway you want to bluff less and this bluff doesn't really get much to fold. Even if a club comes, you are not liking a big pot since you could have the 2nd or 3rd flush.

        For me, KJo is a give up on this flop. I would not have put any money in on any street.


        • #6
          Don’t bluff if you are not heads up would be rule of thumb.....