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Over the top?

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  • Over the top?

    I was playing 1/2 NL at Sugar House Casino in philly early afternoon on a Saturday. It was evident that all the guys at my table knew each other and seem to be regs. They were betting on football and it consumed there conversation. I sat down with 300 dollars and managed to chip up to around 860 or so in a couple of hours by playing tight and being on the right side of a couple big pots. I was about to change tables and was putting my chips in the chip tray when i was dealt Ad 10c in the BB. UTG opened to 8, it folds around to the BU and he 3 bets to 25, SB folds and I decide to call along with UTG. The Flop comes Qd Jd Kc I Flop the Nut Strait
    with 75 dollars in the pot BU checks, I bet 35, UTG calls with like 80 behind, and the BU calls with around 700 in his stack so there's about 170 in the pot
    turn is 9d giving me the nut flush draw. I bet 80, UTG shoves for his last 80 and the BU raises to 150. So at this point Im thinking he has a set and maybe a flush draw as well. My thought here is if he does have a set he needs the board to pair or catch quads on the river so thinking about his outs i figure he as about 20% chance of making his hand with one card to come. I shove my remaining 595 or so in the middle to put him in a tuff spot and he tanks for 5 min or so. hes given away that he does have a set of Kings and he does make the call. the River comes 10d giving him a strait flush
    Yes it's a cooler but is my shove good. Should I just call and see the river? I don't like a Call in this Spot cuz i lets this guy assess the situation on another street and he may get away from it. I don't know ya'll, What do Ya'll think?
    Last edited by; 01-15-2020, 08:23 PM.

  • #2
    You are supposed to get all of your money in when you have the nuts.


    • RealJPB
      RealJPB commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes but you’re also supposed to fold preflop here.

  • #3
    Thats what I think and I've got guys saying no no no, you shove to early, its to much, blah blah blah. I thought I played it pretty well and just ran in to it. It happens, right?


    • #4
      To answer your question, I think your turn jam was fine. You just got coolered. You say you jammed to put him in a tough spot, but really you were betting for value and got it in good.
      Try to remember why you are really betting and it will make these sorts of beats easier to take. In the long run, the play you made when you got there will be profitable if you do it again.
      ​​​​​​​In the end, as played, this particular hand doesn't end any other way.

      That said, since the hand is here, I'll take a walk through it.

      Pre-flop, you either cold four bet this as a bluff or fold.

      As played, I'm confused on the flop. You are in BB, but BTN checks ahead of you? Or did you just lead out for $35? That board is super wet and hits all open and 3bet ranges, so I'd be looking to check raise here a lot and hopefully get money in on the flop, especially holding the Ad.
      On the turn, pot is now $180. You should be targeting sets and two pair hands, and maybe other straights for value now. There really should not be any flushes that got there at this point as everything sensible in a 3bet pot is blocked. I think you should have sized up to like $130-150. If you put him on a set, and maybe flush draw... what flush draw could he have? The only one that makes sense is the Kd, which means he has a set and combo draw, but you have a better straight. So, except for exactly the 10d, the other two 10s don't help him.
      You want to size up to try and hopefully get those sets to value own themselves since there is no guarantee they will call a jam.


      • commented
        Editing a comment
        Sorry i led out with 35. I get all jumbled trying to type this stuff out. Lol

    • #5
      I would have just called the Bu raise on the turn since the flush came in. We block the nut flush so it's unlikely he can get to crazy on the river so we can bluff catch with a pretty strong hand.
      You actually caught him with about the only hand he can have there (other than the shitty end of the str8) that you are ahead of and that might call your all in.

      The SugarHouse is wild. I take it you don't play there often?


      • commented
        Editing a comment
        this was the 2nd time i've played there and yes it is wild

      • crux5259
        crux5259 commented
        Editing a comment
        But what flush in a 3 bet pot comes in here? I guess if it's a wild game then KTdd is possible, but that seems unlikely. Same with 78, T8..
        I just don't see anything on that turn to be scared of.

    • #6
      I'm not a fan of donking this flop.

      This should hit the initial raiser's and the 3-bettor's ranges hard and so they are very likely to cbet. A check-raise allows you to build a much bigger pot quickly which increases the change of being able to play for stacks with the nuts.

      I don't really want to comment on the rest of the hand because your numbers don't add up.

      You say you bet 35 and the UTG calls with 80 behind.

      You then bet 80 and somehow UTG shoves for another 80? Where did this come from?

      You also say that the BTN then raises to 150 but this is not possible because the minimum raise here would be to 160 - and this is assuming that you meant the UTG just called as opposed to shoving another 80 which would take the minimum raise up to 240.
      Last edited by LondonImp; 01-16-2020, 08:10 AM.


      • kkep
        kkep commented
        Editing a comment
        BEST i CAN FIGURE -

        UTG opened to 8,
        folds to Bu 3 bets to 25,
        SB folds
        H calls
        UTG calls

        The Flop $76 comes Qd Jd Kc
        H bet 35
        UTG calls
        BU calls

        Pot $181
        Turn is (QdJdKc)9d
        H bet 80
        UTG calls 80 and is all in
        BU raises to 150 (it had to be at least $160)
        H raises to $595 and is all in
        Bu calls

    • #7
      Fold pre. AT out of position is a pretty bad hand once BTN 3bets. If you have seen BTN getting out of line then you could 4bet bluff, but this is never a hand we want to go 3 ways out of position in a 3bet pot.

      Since the BTN can’t check before you, I’m assuming you donk bet on the flop? This is also not ideal. You’re announcing “I have a good hand!” Check and let him cbet on a board that should hit a ton of his 3b range.


      • crux5259
        crux5259 commented
        Editing a comment
        I said the same thing.
        OP seems to just have been confused in his posting. OP led the flop.