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C-Bet Multiway?

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  • C-Bet Multiway?

    Early stages of a $100 live tournament. No reads on opponents.

    H KQo P SB S 11k B 100/100

    LJ opens to 200, HJ calls, BN calls. I squeeze to 1200 and both LJ and HJ call.

    Flop (3900) T43r

    Would you cbet 3 ways here? Pro: It's a dynamic board where we can blast a lot of turns if we get heads up. We can fold out A highs and underpairs. Con: While we have the range advantage our opponent's have all the nuts. I'm not squeezing TT most likely, let alone 44 or 33. Bigger Con: It's multi-way and we currently have nothing.
    Last edited by RealJPB; 11-29-2019, 07:48 AM.

  • #2
    I think u can c bet small over here but I prefer other hand. I would rather you check raise this hand.


    • CrazyEddie
      CrazyEddie commented
      Editing a comment
      idea of chk raising is interesting ... would u do it in heads up pot as well or ONLY IN multiway pot ?

    • Paul Khoo
      Paul Khoo commented
      Editing a comment
      CrazyEddie check raise in mutiway pot is a good way to thin out the player in the pot. Then leading. When we bet there is tendency some one float us one street with AK AQ. That's what I don't want to see . In heads up pot more of different reason to check raise., To build bigger pot, to protect my checking range,.
      In 3 way pot let's say we will know exact equity hero 40% each opponent has 30%. I really want at least one of them to fold. Then both to call. If both fold I don't mind. But in heads up pot ,I have 70% equity I want to bet as big as possible to keep him at pot

  • #3
    I don't mind barreling (maybe $1800) again on that dry flop planning to give up unless I improve on the turn.


    • #4
      HJ has all the sets, not sure LJ is opening 44 or 33, so maybe he does. Best guess on their ranges, if they defend any pair + or gut shot, they defend about 47% of the time each. So, they both fold about 28% of the time.

      Value hands you would cbet: AA (6), KK (6), QQ (6), JJ? (6), ATo? (12). So 18-36 combos depending if you squeeze with JJ or ATo.

      Potential bluff hands: AJo (12), AQs (4), A5s (4), KQo (12), 98s? (4), 87s? (4). So depending if you squeeze some middle SC, you have 30-38 potential bluffs.

      Not putting AK as a bluff since it is the best unpaired had and a pair probably isn't folding. Any overcard adds equity, so no real need to protect IMO.

      Seems like KQo is your best option for bluffing. You would be targetting Ace highs (which is why AQs and AJo aren't as good to me because they narrow your target to AK or AK/AQ). I also like KQo because you can pretty much continue betting on any turn (A, J, or 9 give you a straight draw; K or Q obviously gives you top pair good kicker, any under card probably doesn't help a flop caller).

      I guess you could give up since your squeeze didn't work, but that seems weak.

      So what bet makes the most sense?

      Option 1, bet small (like 1300) which needs to work 25%, but not sure that folds Ace high. If called, you would be betting on any turn I imagine and need to bet like 2000 which leaves you with like 6500 and the pot would be 10k if called again. At that point you pretty much should go with it on any river I guess. Seems like a risky line, but sometimes you get there, sometimes you get folds on the turn bet, and sometimes you get folds from even a T on the river.

      Option 2, bet around half pot (2000) which needs to work 34% of the time. That seems more likely to get Ace high to fold so you can figure any caller has a pair and give up unless an overcard hits (one will 30% of the time).

      I think either one works, just boils down to if you are prepared to go 3 streets and all in as a bluff some times or if your preference is to protect your tournament life.


      • RealJPB
        RealJPB commented
        Editing a comment
        Appreciate the response. I definitely think the LJ at these stakes is opening all pairs.

        As played I bet 1300 and only the HJ called. The turn was not one of the cards I planned to barrel on, instead a 5 bringing a bd flush I had no blockers to. I check folded. I think I like your sizing in option 2 better.

    • #5
      honestly i think other people have covered this well

      but my thinking is what would i do with JJ here?

      and how do i make 88 and Ax fold from a late position caller.

      for more information on this look at any of alex fitzgeralds lessons he really advocates strong aggression to fold out the A highs in these spots.

      so even though the standard play in a multiway pot is to bet small like 40% of pot - i think here if you are going to go with the barrel you have to go big or don't bother.

      you want to represent immense strength like you have JJ+

      so a bet of 3500+ seems like the right play if my goal is to make people fold and also make it look like i have JJ+

      the guy with JT is going to think twice about calling you with that bet

      the guy with Ax is going to fold

      the guy with 55-99 is going to think twice about calling too.

      you have to commit and turn barrel any card

      i recommend alex fitzgeralds hand quizes if you can find them (shame the hand quizes aren't ordered by coach)

      Alex Fitzgerald Exploitative Continuation Bet Sizing
      Alex Fitzgerald Threebetting From Out Of Position
      Alex Fitzgerald 5 Postflop Tricks You Can Use
      Alex Fitzgerald Barreling Theory


      • RealJPB
        RealJPB commented
        Editing a comment
        I’m a big Alex fan. I’ve been focusing a lot lately on solver material, and I suspect heads up this is a flop a solver would advocate betting often and small (though that could be wrong.) I think you’re right that particularly multi-way if I’m going to bet it’s a good spot to go back to Alex’s playbook and make sure I’m folding out those hands.

      • LondonImp
        LondonImp commented
        Editing a comment
        And then give up on the river?

      • kkep
        kkep commented
        Editing a comment
        3500 is way to much IMO. That is more than 1/3 of our stack.

        We go to the flop (3900) with 9800 in our stack. If we bet 3500 and get 1 call the pot will be 10900 and we will only have 6300

        I think it would be better (I would never do this) to just go all in rather than bet 3500.

        Either way when we get called we are going to be in terrible shape but the all in might *occasionally* get some hero folds.

    • #6
      3 ways is Borderline but on this dry of a Board i think you Need to Continue your Story, you have little Showdown value but lots of straight draw value, overcards , both Opponents miss roughly 42% in General board independent so this is a cbet


      • #7
        I would continue bluffing with a small bet. You have overs and a BDSD to barrel the turn and you can get better hands to fold like some ace highs and small pairs. If you bluff squeeze preflop OOP I think you have to be prepared to bet the flop.

        Originally posted by halem111 View Post
        i recommend alex fitzgeralds hand quizes if you can find them (shame the hand quizes aren't ordered by coach)
        Click on the column headers

        Click image for larger version

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