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nasty Spot

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  • nasty Spot

    live quite high buyin

    villian 230k in live winnings, old reg

    Hero QQ , Position cutoff , stack 31.100

    blinds 1000/2000 (2000 bb ante)

    villian lojack who covers me raises 2500 ,

    Hero 3 bet 7500

    evrybody else folddd , villian calls

    villian Checks to me on AKJ Rainbow

    Heros first idea Checking back hoping to hit a Lucky T , perhaps Q good ,6 outs perhaps

    but then I thought i cannot call down when he barrels turn and river or jams turn

    i thought I have the range Advantage and nut advantage , so I close my eyes in my Head and cbet 8600 , having 15000 chips left

    villian. .. of course Check raised allin

    I folded ..

    he showes JJ

    after this I thought if I would hate a Check raise I should More often Check back but here it would not have changed the Result most likely unless i hit a T or Q (6 outs) , perhaps I would have lost Fewer Chips or no Chips (but just Check fold seems so weak after my preflop Aggression on this Board)

    thoughts ?
    Last edited by Guido; 11-03-2019, 05:41 AM.

  • #2
    you know what you should do but you choose to doubt yourself, no one can help you but yourself , Is QQ a value bet or bluff bet , on a AK J board?


    • #3
      Originally posted by Guido View Post
      Check fold seems so weak after my preflop Aggression on this Board
      This sounds like a problem that most players, including myself, struggle with, ego. You've taken an aggressive line and don't want to appear weak even though your instinct was to continue with caution.

      Paul Khoo makes a great point and this is usually the first thing I try to ask myself when its my action. Is this a bluff or a value bet? Can I get better hands to fold? Can I get worse hands to call? This should be what determines your action, not whether or not you perceive it to be weak or strong. Of course there are other factors to consider such as range and nut advantages but this initial question is fairly simple to answer and will keep your mind focused.

      EDIT: Watching "A little coffee" and JL just said, "when you know the correct play and you don't do it, you lack discipline". Nailed it.
      Last edited by MrFuss; 11-04-2019, 09:35 AM.


      • #4
        nice Posting @both.

        i wish i would have listened to my first Instinct.

        i would then most probably have lost no More Chips postflop

        or if I hit a 6 outer double up

        actually I dont have a Big Ego. thats a Big advantage . but sometimes everybody has an ego as everybody Likes compliments if they are meant honestly

        here i think i can bluff off a pair of kings but perhaps one street is not enough (and yes it is a bluff)

        and I cannot get worse Hands to call (no value bet)

        it is not often a good idea to turn a marginal Made Hand into a bluff

        in the past I got critized often here by strong players for taking too passive lines on Flop as a preflop aggressor ( i should often cbet small even the Flop runs out terribly) , so i worked on it but here i think this is not a Spot where you should follow up the Aggression on Flop


        • #5
          "Ego" isnt meant to carry a negative connotation. It's simply a fact of human nature. Sometimes we care what other people think and in poker this can cause us to make the wrong decisions.


          • #6
            Guido , I understand what you're asking here, but I use to have this problem. I am sure that you use a HUD? this is what helped me. do a search for when you have a pair with 2 over cards. look how much you loose if you raise there vs check. for me I was loosing 4BB when I raise there. i'm sure that you're similar,


            • #7
              yes i have a HUD. but I am Not at Home at the Moment. i Guess you mean bet instead of raise ? remember i am in position here and villian Checked to me


              • jamtay317
                jamtay317 commented
                Editing a comment
                When I get home today I'll display the info. checking is more profitable.

              • jamtay317
                jamtay317 commented
                Editing a comment
                I dont think that I've ever tested this from when i was in position. I will look into it and post it later today.

            • #8
              "but then I thought i cannot call down when he barrels turn and river or jams turn"

              My question is, why is this a bad thing? People just don't bluff enough live. If I check back and the turn is a 4, if an old reg bombs it I'm comfortably folding every time. He's just not turning T9s or 77 into a bluff often enough. (I know you said high buyin but what was the buyin?)

              If he bets small I might call on the chance that he's value owning a QJ or JT and evaluate the river.

              The bottom line though is that this is a terrible flop for your hard and you should feel fine giving up the pot a decent portion of the time.


              • Guido
                Guido commented
                Editing a comment
                buyin was € 550 unlimited reentry, high enough for quite high buyin ? : )

            • #9
              With 15.5BB why didn't you just go all-in pre-flop? I doubt the V folds JJ but I think that's the best play with 7500 chips already in the pot.