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Flop a set in multiway

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  • Flop a set in multiway

    Playing 1/2 live 220bb effective

    Hand 9c9s Stack 520 Position UTG
    Button straddle $5
    blinds fold I make it 15

    Flop: Js9h7s
    I raise 75, LJ all In 200, BTN Allin 405 Hero??

  • #2
    Nasty spot.

    Against just the LJ's shove this would be a clear call in my opinion - there certainly are a lot of draws available for them to do this with and we do have outs against the T8 (if he's really calling here with that versus a straddle and UTG raise).

    When BTN shoves over the top I think we have to let this go. Hating it though.


    • #3
      Last edited by RealJPB; 10-03-2019, 09:13 AM.


      • #4
        He has to call $315. I think he started the hand with $440? So I believe it's $315 to win $995 so we would like at
        least 35% equity.

        The effective stack is wrong as the LJ only started with 107.5BB.

        I'm never c-betting that flop 5 handed, especially in $1/$2. Although we most often have the best hand there are
        almost always going to be hand combo's that won't be folding and a lot of cards that are going to put us in a tough
        spot. Any spade (we have the 9s), K Q T 8 5, (yes I believe 86s could be in the Bu calling range) that's about 1/2
        the deck.

        But we bet big and not only get called, we get jammed on and re-jammed.

        In my mind flopping a set on such a coordinated board 5 handed gives us a clear MM hand/bluff catcher. So I would
        most often be check calling or delay c-betting on a good turn card when the flop checks around.


        • JredA
          JredA commented
          Editing a comment
          I am not disagreeing with your line or your approach, I am just throwing it out there for others that when J Little uses his classification system its based on the current board and hand, not the what ifs.

        • kkep
          kkep commented
          Editing a comment
          Gotcha, I did say we often have the best hand on the flop. I also want to add. When I sit down at 1/2 I feel like I have a nice edge and will find plenty of spots over the course of 8-10 hours to get stacks in when I know for a fact I have the best hand.

        • kkep
          kkep commented
          Editing a comment
          I tend to agree with RealJPB on the flop bet sizing too.

          Multi-way I think a 1/2 pot bet is actually a large bet. IE $35 -$40 on this flop would be the equivalent of $60 HU. Your going to get the same players folding/calling/raising but when you get raised it will often be easier to continue or get away from some hands more easily/cheaper.

          I just started to look deeper into multi-way pots so take this with a grain of salt.

      • #5
        I think it is a mandatory call that you feel sick about.

        I am not convinced T8s is in their calling range against an UTG open, but for worst case scenario will assume it is. I will give LJ and BTN the following ranges which limit the number of flush draws in their range but give them both T8s. (these are their jamming ranges)

        LJ = JJ,77,T8s,AsQs,KsQs,AsTs,KsTs,QsTs
        BTN = JJ,77,T8s,AsQs,KsQs,AsTs,KsTs,QsTs

        For the main pot that will be $678 you are calling $125 (18.4%) and have 27.5% equity against both ranges.

        For the side pot of $410 you put in 50% and have 53% equity.

        And this is worst case scenario. They could also be overvaluing top pairs, could have way more flush draws in their range, could not have T8s, etc.

        Last edited by 1Peter510; 10-03-2019, 09:53 AM.


        • RealJPB
          RealJPB commented
          Editing a comment

      • #6
        This is a cash game guys. We should be looking for any edge we can find and going for it to maximize our win rate. If we are not willing to stack off here, I am not sure why we are playing.

        We have no reads that villains are nits or only jamming the nuts. We have no reads at all. What are we scared of? Yes its a wet board, but we are ahead here so often , especially at a 1/2 game where people will be jamming worse so often. And no matter what, we have outs.

        Yes, it's a big jam (200bb), but its also a chance to get our money in ahead and scoop a massive pot.

        Villain might have T8, but why couldn't he have J9, J7, 97 a set of 77's or a draw?

        FWIW....I love the big flop bet. Get money in the pot while we are most likely ahead.

        In theory, on wet connected boards we are betting less often, but big when we do so. This is 1/2, so charge the max and get the money in and build a pot while we are ahead.

        Even if we give the BTN a TIGHT range of all the sets, all the 2 pair and all the straights w/ only a few of the strongest flush draws we are getting over the right price for the side pot.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screen Shot 2019-10-03 at 8.53.54 AM.png Views:	3 Size:	995.7 KB ID:	24980

        I like the big flop bet and Im very willing to stack off here and get my money in.
        Last edited by JredA; 10-03-2019, 10:08 AM.


        • RealJPB
          RealJPB commented
          Editing a comment

        • MrFuss
          MrFuss commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree with the big flop bet. There's so many made hands and draws that hero can extract value from. And as Jred said, generally Im betting very infrequently in MW pots so I want to use a large sizing.

        • jamtay317
          jamtay317 commented
          Editing a comment
          Great Point! Thank you for the analysis.