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  • Flopping a set

    Playing online 6 handed

    Hand 77 position HJ Stack 100b
    LJ limps, I raise 4bb LJ raises 9bb I call planning to just set mine

    Flop:AsTc7s
    LJ Bets 4bb, I raise 30BB, LJ all in, Hero??

    Can you ever fold here?

  • #2
    This is always AA and really only done at micros. Maybe KK but 95% AA. Calling to set mine is fine but believe it or not I probably would have folded when the A hits the flop. Yeah it sounds nitty but this is a standard play for bad players at the micros. As played, insta muck when villain jams.

    Comment


    • jamtay317
      jamtay317 commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah, I did call and it was AA. I have seen this before, but I thought to myself "Can I really fold a set?" I guess the answer should have been yes.

    • MrFuss
      MrFuss commented
      Editing a comment
      If you use a hud you should add limp %. Then create a pop up to show limp/fold, limp/call, limp/raise by position. This will help you identify these situations and also let you know when you can bluff raise to get limpers to fold or value raise and get calls.

  • #3
    I dont play Cash Game at all but at the Micros would happily calling off expecting to be against Ak, AQ, AA, TT, at

    if I am against a better set so be it

    But why are you raising 30 BB on Flop when he bets 4 BB?

    Comment


    • jamtay317
      jamtay317 commented
      Editing a comment
      I raise almost the size of the pot.

  • #4
    I don't think you should be folding a set here regardless. Unless you KNOW that villain is that bad. I would say this is AA like 70 percent of the time 80 max. Some players at this level will take this line "correctly" with a flush or combo draw.

    Folding a set is a high level skill and should only be done in better cash games and some tournaments. It's better to go down set over set than make fold mistakes at this level.

    Comment


    • MrFuss
      MrFuss commented
      Editing a comment
      What flush or combo draws is a player limp raising with pre? If it were limp/call pre I could see the potential but this exact line screams AA
      Last edited by MrFuss; 09-28-2019, 04:02 PM.

  • #5
    You're only 100BB deep, this is a cold deck. If you were 500BB deep I think we could discuss the merits of folding.

    Comment


    • #6
      I've been going through the live NL classes and Jonathan has stressed multiple times that one of the most important strategies can be betting for value with the intention to fold if raised. This is a perfect example. In my mind villain has made it very clear he's holding AA. After he jams this is an easy exploitative fold imo.

      Comment


      • MrFuss
        MrFuss commented
        Editing a comment
        And to reiterate something Jonathan says a lot in cash game classes, "You have to be willing to listen to what opponents are telling you after the flop, otherwise you're going to get in a ton of trouble". He just said it again in Jonathan Little's Live No-Limit Cash Games Part 2. And in this case, the opponent is telling me he has AA.

        It would be interesting to see the stats for this player
        Last edited by MrFuss; 09-28-2019, 10:06 PM.

      • jamtay317
        jamtay317 commented
        Editing a comment
        MrFuss 41 hands VPIP 28% PFR 23% BET FLOP 33%

      • MrFuss
        MrFuss commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks jam. pretty standard LAG for 6max but nothing to rely on with only 41 hands.

    • #7
      folding a set is almost 95% wrong move , unless you have specify read, you can as well say that JL would fold KK preflop. KK only Lose AA 6 combo , to lose to top set and middle set is also 6 combo , we are winning so many combo , so far i know i am a winning player i don't fold set without specify reason ,

      the more question move is why call a 3 bet if you intend to fold a set . and how confident we are to say a 3 bet pot that willing to commit the whole stack is only top set , unless villain is a 100% nit , this is a 100 bb game , pot is around 18bb, we are in a roughly 5 spr pot

      can we really fold set here , so we need to have a read and range what hand will limp raise preflop and potential want to commit his stack in on flop in a 5 spr pot .AA is one of them TT is one of them, how about AT is it in his limp raise range , how about AK,AQ,
      if you are so confident in your read villain only has better hand maybe you can fold your set , i don't . there are so many type of bad player , nuts peddler is one of them , nit is one of them , aggro monkey , station

      and i agree with reeeeeeper this is a 100bb game not a 500b game , and this is a 3 bet pot , hitting a set and fold lol , might as well fold preflop

      and the flop why raise so big on the flop.

      all decision you have to make is range your opponent if you only range villain with AA/ TT then you see your pot odd , if you dont have the odds to win you can fold. but i dont know how you going get this accurate read. AK , one hand it sefl is a very possible hand and this hand it self has 12 combo

      Comment


      • jamtay317
        jamtay317 commented
        Editing a comment
        Paul Khoo I raised big on the flop because I was trying to get it in.

      • Paul Khoo
        Paul Khoo commented
        Editing a comment
        jamtay317 you raise big on flop might able get it in with worst hand but you narrow down too much of villain hand to strong hand , even you raise smaller , there is still furture street on turn and river , it might be higher ev , lets assume AK is getting in 100% maybe AQ is not maybe AJ is not . if you know by raising big can get it in with alot of worst hand then raise big . just that raising too big might scare off those hand that you will stack off and allow them to run away. Poker is a game of ev , what ever action you take or what size you take is possible ,but what we trying to achieve is to get highest ev , if we know exact villain hand we can adjust according , but we are not mike postile. what what we can do is range down , what is the likely highest ev againist the range not againist specify hand

    • #8
      I would only 3X his bet on the flop. I think if he jams, you could be hands against AK,AQ,TT,AT,AJ maybe sometime, or mostly set.

      Did you use hud? what his stats?

      If you calculate the odds for calling, i think it is leaning towards a call because you can beat so many of his hands that he may have

      Comment


      • #9
        Relevant

        http://jonathanlittlepoker.com/limp3bet/

        Comment


        • kkep
          kkep commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes it is but JL suggested mucking AQ not a pocket pair.
          We have just about enough chips to justify the call pre. We hit our set - we shouldn't fold IMO.

        • MrFuss
          MrFuss commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah Im not saying anything about the different opinions posted. Only that this article is relevant to this situation.

      • #10
        I can hear JL saying it over and over, Never fold the second nuts.

        Comment


        • #11
          This is always AA and really only done at micros. Maybe KK but 95% AA. Calling to set mine is fine but believe it or not I probably would have folded when the A hits the flop. Yeah it sounds nitty but this is a standard play for bad players at the micros. As played, insta muck when villain jams.

          Comment


          • MrFuss
            MrFuss commented
            Editing a comment
            One of us. One of us. One of us. I knew I would catch a bunch of flack for suggesting to fold a set but imo, in this exact scenario, villain has made it very clear what he's holding. And in JL's own words, "if you don't listen to what your opponent is telling you, you're going to get into trouble."

            Sure he also says stuff like, "never fold the second nuts" however, it's just so obvious to me that villain has AA here and I would made an exploitative fold, IN THIS EXACT SCENARIO. That last bit is very important and I mean exact, stakes. positions, actions etc etc

          • Paul Khoo
            Paul Khoo commented
            Editing a comment
            MrFuss if you are 100% sure go ahead. haha those that think they can 100% sure good luck
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