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  • Hand Review

    Cash 1/2
    9 seated, about 2 hours into my Monday session

    UTG 130BB - was open limping with big hands like JJ+ AK at least and opting for pot control until the river
    UTG 1 150BB - Fishy
    UGT 2 400BB - slow played big hands, never 3-bet but also didn't seem to be able to fold big over pairs on
    boards that could have him easily crushed. Luckily for him they were good each time.
    H SB 250BB
    BB 75BB - Fish tried to play just about every pot and seemed to be generally clueless of where he was in hands.


    UTG limps in
    UTG 1 calls
    UTG 2 calls
    H SB calls with 33
    BB calls

    Pot $10
    Flop 3cJsKc

    H donk leads for 5
    BB raises to 15
    UTG folds
    UTG 1 folds
    UTG 2 calls
    H calls

    Pot $55
    Turn (3cJsKc) Tc

    H checks
    BB bets 20
    UTG 2 calls
    SB calls

    Pot $115
    River 3cJsKcTc (Ks)
    H? I check
    BB checks
    UTG bets $51
    H?
    Last edited by kkep; 09-11-2019, 07:55 PM.

  • #2
    Why do you not re-raise your opponent here on a flop like this? To me this seems like the perfect scenario.

    You get the option to set him poor odds to chase all the various draws that are out there and also call/raise with hands that he incorrectly believes are ahead. Your hand is likely well ahead but is also very well disguised. This is exactly what you want against a weak opponent.

    [EDIT: Just noticed that UTG2 cold called the raise on the flop. This is even more reason to re-raise the flop. You get to build a bigger pot with what is almost certainly the best hand and also protect against a horrible turn card of which there certainly are a lot.]

    [EDIT 2: I can see that you state UTG2 'slow played big hands' but is he really over limping JJ/KK with two opponents already having limped in front? If he really is that bad I would end up paying him off in this situation but be happy I'll overrun him in the long run]
    Last edited by LondonImp; 09-11-2019, 08:18 AM.

    Comment


    • kkep
      kkep commented
      Editing a comment
      So earlier UTG2 got to showdown with AA. The other player asked why didn't you *raise me* pre-flop. He answered you bet for me.
      OK fine But later he showed up with another big over pair after limping in behind.

      He was an old dude

      So yes, his limping range can be anything.

  • #3
    Villain cold calls a raise on the flop, bets turn and bets river. Your read is that he slow plays big hands but also overvalues big hands.

    There are 15 combos of hands you lose to but does he limp pre with JJ? That leans us closer to 12 combos of KJ and KT. Are there more combos of hands he'll play this way that you beat and will call a raise? There are 8 KQ, maybe some fraction of the time he plays AK or AA this way (but that really just cancels out the times he plays JJ this way). 2 combos of K9s or K8s maybe. He certainly has some # of club combos here.

    It's close. The read that he has trouble folding good hands would make me want to greedily put in the raise here but if you just called I get the logic behind it.

    Comment


    • #4
      ok, ever since this hand (https://forum.pokercoaching.com/foru...opped-set-here) and through further
      work with ranges I now generally put bottom set on wet boards in my marginal made hands at least to start out.

      The only reason why I even donk bet this flop was because it was a limped pot in a cash game so I didn't mind putting a few bucks in just to get
      something in the pot if I get a favorable run out. But of course the Fish keeps putting chips in the pot when he is way behind two other players.
      This happens a ton in 1/2.

      I just called and UTG2 had Jacks full. On one hand I hated to call bc I could be up against some strong hands that would pay of a raise but on the
      other hand with so many Broadway cards I felt like it was just as easy for me to have the worst boat. Realistically in a limped pot even K3s is still alive.

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by kkep View Post
        ok, ever since this hand (https://forum.pokercoaching.com/foru...opped-set-here) and through further
        work with ranges I now generally put bottom set on wet boards in my marginal made hands at least to start out.
        But wet boards means nothing in this hand. Yes, it was a wet board but the draws didn't come in, and you bet because the board is wet. Otherwise you give them the right odds (infinite) to draw, and you don't get paid off when they miss. You are double screwing yourself.

        EDIT: Also, if you don't bet sets on draw heavy boards, you can't bet your draws. So I guess you just bet tptk/overpars, which will be behind (SETS) or get drawn out on more often.
        Last edited by Mayday; 09-11-2019, 09:41 PM.

        Comment


        • #6
          We do not have to bet every flop. This isn't the worst flop for a set but it's still not great 5 handed either.
          As I said had this not been a limped 1/2 pot I wouldn't have donk bet the flop.

          Not saying that you don't pay attention at the tables but try to take note of how many times a person over
          plays a set, gets all or most of their chips in by the river and loses and has a stunned look on their face.
          I probably see this happen at least once a session...

          Also by saying the draws didn't come in means nothing (btw the T on the turn will often a lot of draws here
          (now) 3 handed). Which is why I only check called.

          You are being results oriented. I only lost (felt like I won tho) about $90 and I would have been just as
          happy had I only won $90 or even $40. Once that turn card hits we are often not going to have the best
          hand any longer.

          Here are our bad turn cards 9 T J Q K A and any club (22 cards(?), 42% of the deck). So why do we want
          to play a big pot with bottom set or any set at this point?

          Now we get to the river with a full house on a paired board full of over cards. We are strong enough to beat
          players that will over value certain holdings and we have a great bluff catcher but we do not have the nuts.
          That's the comfortable sort of position I like to be in.

          IDK, Maybe I am *suppose* to play a set here more aggressively but this is what has been working for the past
          couple of months and my returns have been almost all positive.

          By doing a better job of protecting my marginal hands which also means reclassifying some hands as marginal;
          that I used to over play I don't have as many in session big swings. Most of my sessions point straight up with
          small dips here and there with the occasional get it in good only to be bit in the ass which is unavoidable.

          YMMV

          Comment

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