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Tough river spot 50NL

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  • Tough river spot 50NL

    Hey everyone,

    I'm Kevin. Happy to be here and looking forward to improving.

    Just wanted to post a quick spot for feedback. Never posted a hand in a forum before. I'll do my best to give appropriate details. This hand happened halfway through my first orbit, so, no specific reads to give, and I was sitting a tad under 100bb.
    One player limps in Lojack (150bb stack), I raise AdJh to 2.25 in the Hijack. SB (200bb) and Limper call. Everyone else folds.

    Flop: Qd-10h-9h
    Checks to me, I bet half pot (3.60 into 7 roughly). Both call. I bet because this clearly falls into my draw category.

    Turn: 10d. Action checks through.

    River: Ac. Final board is: Qd-10h-9h-10d-Ac
    Now SB leads for $9 (roughly half-pot), Lojack tanks for 10-15 seconds, and calls. It's on me, $9 to call, with the pot being just over $35 (pot will be just under $45 if I call).

    Will post the results later. Any feedback on any part of the hand is much appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited by; 09-10-2019, 08:22 AM.

  • #2
    Hello! Welcome to the Forum!

    Preflop I think that you should make a bigger raise, you should probably make it a pot size raise.
    PotSizeRaise = 3(last bet) + (Any Aditional $ in Pot)
    lets say 2.75 = 3(0.5) + (LJ limp + BB + SB)
    Let's look at some ranges I'm going to make some assumptions that may or may not be correct about the type of player in the LJ.

    LJ I would say never has a Premium Made Hand here because he limped and called in a multiway pot. I'm going to give him a loose passive range of something like this:
    Click image for larger version

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    My raising Range here may look something like:

    Click image for larger version

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    The SB may actually have some strong hands in his range but I'm going to remove some of the most obvious 3 bet hands.

    Click image for larger version

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    As played On the flop you have to know that this is a very wet flop. all the straight draws, flush draws, Top Pairs are going to call you.
    all of the straights and flushes maybe 2 pairs are going to check-raise you. I think that you want to check this back.

    Flop comes QdTh9h
    As you can see here you still have the lead over your range if you check
    Click image for larger version

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    If you bet and get called all of a sudden you now lose your edge.
    Click image for larger version

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    As played On the turn Td actually helps your range, you now have the lead again. we can remove some of their top made hand like straights and sets

    if you bet here with the intention of folding to a check-raise you're now quite a bit ahead to jam the river.

    But as played, we cannot remove this from their range.

    River: Ac
    Well, you hit top pair, SB is betting 9 into a pot that is going to be 45. you need 20% equity to call. your range has that but your hand does not.
    I think that I would fold the river.

    But that is just me.
    Last edited by jamtay317; 09-10-2019, 11:44 AM.


    • jamtay317
      jamtay317 commented
      Editing a comment
      for some reason, it wouldn't let me add the last picture. which was showing that your range had 48% equity aginst thiers.

  • #3
    Hi Kevin - welcome to the forum!

    Preflop I think your raise is too small.

    When facing a limper it is very often best to stick to the 3bb + 1bb per limper + 1bb if out of position. In this hand therefore it would have been better to raise ~4bbs.

    The reason for this is you give the blinds and especially the original limper excellent odds to call.

    The point of an isolation raise is to try to isolate a single player as this gives us the maximum chance of realising our equity - ideally we will also be in position and this is why we pay the extra 1bb if not to increase out chance of taking the pot down there and then. By making such a small raise it dramatically reduces the chance of getting just a single caller or winning the pot (both good outcomes).

    I agree that your hand falls into the 'draw' category and so on the flop betting is correct. However, because the board is very co-ordinated and relatively high you are going to find yourself with a large number of both value bets and draws. This generally means that you should size up your bets. Although the fact that it's a multiway pot means the bets can be downsized... Isn't poker fun? Because of this I could get behind either a 1/3 or 2/3-3/4 pot size - just not a massive fan of the 1/2 pot.

    On the turn your opponents have a lot more Ts in their range than you do here so a check is good as you will also have less value bets so do not need to balance as much (also you missed the first part of your back-door flush draw which would've formed a great candidate for another bet).

    On the river you need to win ~20% of the time to break even. Generally you need a stronger hand to overcall, but with such good odds I think I find a call here but it is very close. Opponents just don't bluff enough at these stakes.
    Last edited by LondonImp; 09-10-2019, 09:24 AM.


    • #4
      I would tend to check the flop because you have almost no fold equity and you really don't want to get raised. As played, I would check behind the turn (if you checked the flop and was checked to on the turn, betting the turn and river as a bluff would become viable). On the river, I would reluctantly call. The caller in the middle probably doesn't have an amazing hand, so really, it is mostly between you and the bettor with you getting excellent odds.


      • #5
        Here's about the widest I'd raise the limper preflop

        My natural instinct was to check AJ here but if you do you really only have a handful of bluff combos. I still might check just because this board should hit one of them so often.

        I don't think I like half pot if you do bet. I'd probably go 1/3 with the aim of folding out underpairs and if someone folds something like A9s all the better.

        Totally fine checking the turn once they both call flop. I'd continue betting pretty much all my made hands except AA, KK, AQ and Q9 so your range when you check back is pretty narrow.

        You're getting a decent price but I'm not sure what they bet and call with that you beat. SB can certainly have Tx or other slow played strong hands. I don't think he's betting Qx on this river. LJ doesn't have the super nuts when he just calls though certainly could still have some Tx or straights that are scared of full houses.

        You block KJ, J8 and JT so I don't hate a call, but this would definitely be at the bottom of my calling range here.

        Depending on what I thought of my opponents (Will SB ever bluff the river? will LJ always raise his strong hands?) calling could be fine but I'd probably fold this in game.


        • #6
          Thank you all for the great feedback. After thinking for about 20 seconds, I did make the call. While I definitely wasn't thrilled, I've been in similar spots where I've folded, only to see I would have won. In this exact scenario, it's possible the lead is a bluff, the Lojack tanks, then makes a call with something like KQ, or an Ace I chop with. With such good odds, i eventually clicked call.
          As it turns out, the SB was bluffing with Kd8h
          Lojack had a black J10 off-suit. Wah wah wah. I assume he was tanking to decide on a call or raise.

          In hindsight, I agree the PF size was too small.
          I think I still like betting the flop because we get under pairs to fold, we block straights and AQ, and if we get called, we build the pot in case we hit the nut straight or backdoor flush draw. I agree the sizing is off, and I prefer betting smaller just in case we do get raised, we can maybe peel in position.
          Also, I'm wondering if there's any merit to jamming the river. Normally I am not that loose, but if we block straights, some boats, and can credibly rep AA, does it makes sense? Given that the Lojack tank called, could he conceivably fold? Of course the problem with jamming is most hands that fold we beat anyway, but it's just some food for thought.

          On a more positive note, I won back what I lost on the very next hand against the bluffer when my 86 suited beat his A8 suited for a 140 bb pot on an A66 flop


          • RealJPB
            RealJPB commented
            Editing a comment