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Playing 10-25bb deep in tourneys

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  • Playing 10-25bb deep in tourneys

    I'd say this is definitely my weak spot as I'm a cash game play who occasionally plays mtt and used to playin 1-200bb+. My question is at what bb do you stop cold calling? I have looked at some of jons GTO ranges which has helped me realise some of the horrible mistakes I'm doing, not cold calling short this is something I never do which maybe I should in the 15-25bb range? Seems retarded to me but maybe I can cold call with this stack? My leaks are that I get way too greedy with my 3b shuvs as resteal. I'll shuv way to wide over a raise because I think meh its probably got 36%+ eq and I have the right pot odds if I do, but I am still always getting it in a dog and I think I need to be a lot tighter here. As jon said i should shuv 50% tighter of what i tihnk villans opening range is. I just busted a 2k event where UTG+2 has raised cut off calls (2.5x) I shuv like 26bb with K9s... too greedy there is already 7.5bb in the pot already (bb + bb ante sb) and I think first to act may fold as he has a player behind and the cold caller cant be that strong so I have good equity if he calls, which he did with AT. I feel I am too willing to lose my tournament life.

  • #2
    I Stop cold calling vs minraise from the BB at 7 BB!! From others positions roughly stopping at 10 bb when I want To trap, Stopping at roughly 20 BB for set Mining vs up To 2.5x raise . With low suited Connectors i would want to have 40 BB etc

    shoving 26 BB vs utg+2 range when there is already a caller is suicide Really.

    you should not play 2k mtt unless you satty in and unless you Know better how to play different stack sizes imho

    read jl first book on that

    in mtts you want to have an edge of roughly 5% to every neutral ev decision . Chips you win are not that valuable As the Chips you lose hurtening you
    Last edited by Guido; 09-09-2019, 11:36 AM.


    • adoyal
      adoyal commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for your reply yeah I'm a heads up cash game player and I do Ok in tournaments but my leaks have become clear to me recently, yeah what you say about neutral EV decisions, so say utg +2 raises 2.5x one caller, thats 7.5bb in pot with bb ante and my equity needed vs pot odds is 26/59.5 = 44% and tbh this is a lot higher then i expected as vs his range I have only 36% most likely, assuming he is opening top 11%, so for a 5% edge should i be shuving top like 6.8%.. this gives me 56% equity? The way I look at these spots is like Ok utg+2 has to worry about caller behind so may fold a good % of this top 11% and then vs the caller maybe my equity is the same or better and if he folds 10% of the time my play is profitable lol I could even be ahead of the callers range.

  • #3
    I think you focus a Bit on the wrong things. Mtt are a different animal.

    Since you cannot Go for every little +ev decision in mtt As you should in Cash you Need to be thinking completely differently.

    the Main factor is villians range and how you fare/ beat against it when you Need a 5 % edge. Mtt Game has changed over the years ok you still have real fold equity with 27bb+ vs 1 opener und with roughly 30bb+ vs 2 And also some fold equity As a 3 bet jammer with 16bb+ vs 1 And roughly 18 BB vs 2 but People call way More often to 3 bet jams and 3 bet normal raises in General nowadays

    so k9s vs utg+ 2 you are way way behind of his range

    and As People Open More tightly from ep your fold equity decreases even more

    the caller has a weaker range than the ep guy unless he Traps (seldomly)

    so focus on the utg+2 With 26 BB effectively vs him and the caller I would jam TT+ , Aqs, + AKo+ thats it

    you can beat yourself up by calculating the percentages but if you have no real fold equity most often and you Face a strong utg+2 range all this goes out the Window; if he calls with the stronger range and covers you are out most often and you have only 1 Tournament Life after a certain Time

    i would only Consider jamming 26 BB with k9s effectively vs 2 if villian1 raises very loose and caller is straightforward & if they both are in late position
    Last edited by Guido; 09-09-2019, 03:35 PM.


    • adoyal
      adoyal commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah I have come to realise I am just way off with my tournament thinking, I played another $700 live tourney today 50/100 blinds MP raise 300 fish calls I make it 1500 with AKo i think it was BTN that makes it 3700 I jam for 35k and he snaps with aces, fuck thats terrible 350bb deep lol I said to the guy I was hoping for QQ n hes like he probably folds queens lol face palm... i flopped an ace and 2nd nut flush draw so money was goin in anyway but still terrible mistake

  • #4
    I recently had a forum Discussion with JredA he convinced me it is Bad to not consider being allin preflop with Ak with More than 50 bb

    I said before i will never Go allin with ak with More than 50 bb

    now i have enlarged my treshold

    But 350 BB is certainly way to deep unless it is very special situation where you have a monster read
    Last edited by Guido; 09-11-2019, 05:03 AM.


    • adoyal
      adoyal commented
      Editing a comment
      I know tbh i think i was just had a bit of accumulation tilt had been running bad at cash all day and was convinced Im a tourney fish already, I think I will return home and do a lot of £30-£100 live tourneys. I find also that I dont really exploit fish very well in tourneys, in cash games no problem yet in tourneys my friend said I was unlucky in the $2k as I had some very good very high stake regulars (that where just doing the 2k because it was part of their package) yet this didnt really bother me as I dont feel I can maximize my potential vs fish

  • #5
    One very important thing to exploit fish in mtt is to Cover them for obv reasons


    • #6
      Don't think you can't exploit +EV situations. You just need to consider more carefully how much money you put in the middle. I have been watching some GTO videos recently, and the commentator is constantly saying, "I think [insert unbelievable GTO player's name here] bet smaller than PIO recommends (or checked when PIO recommends a bet) here because of ICM." (In other words, in a MTT, the chips he can lose are worth more than the chips he can win, so if it's +EV but not by much, don't be 4x potting it just because PIO told you to.)


      • Guido
        Guido commented
        Editing a comment
        but ICM doesnt play any role here 350 BB deep

      • Mayday
        Mayday commented
        Editing a comment
        No. That wasn't my point. My comment was "Don't think you can't exploit +EV situations [in general]."