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1/2 Turn Spot

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  • 1/2 Turn Spot

    This feels like a pretty simple hand that I definitely screwed up once and potentially screwed up multiple times.

    H AcJd P LJ Blinds $1/$2

    8 handed, UTG opens to $12, folds to me. This is where I make mistake #1. Clear 3bet or fold spot. Instead I call. Button calls and both blinds call.

    Flop ($60) AhJs5s Checks to me. I bet $40. Only BB calls. He has ~$85 back.

    Turn ($140) 7s He checks. Put him in or check back?

  • #2
    I would fold pre and call if they were suited and I didn't expect the players behind me to 3-bet very often without a nutted a hand.

    I would just put him all in on the turn unless you want to give a free card with some spade combos that include like AsXx KsQx KxQs KsJx QsJx KsTx QsTx ect....
    It's hard to make a flush so good for him if he has it.
    Last edited by kkep; 09-05-2019, 06:46 PM.


    • #3
      What kind of player is BB?


      • RealJPB
        RealJPB commented
        Editing a comment
        Don’t have a ton of history with him but my impression is solid but straightforward MAWG. He took 2nd for $31k in a tourney we both played in Vegas this summer but this is only the 2nd time I’ve played cash with him. He seems mostly to be putting money in if he has a decent hand. Haven’t seen him get caught bluffing in the ~6 hours we’ve played together over two sessions.

        I will tell you I have a much better sense of him based on something he said after this hand but obviously didn’t have that info going in.

      • reeeeeeper
        reeeeeeper commented
        Editing a comment
        There we go, that's what I'm talking about! After JL's comments on your Tens full hand I realize it's impossible to answer questions like this in a vacuum.

    • #4
      This is a fold preflop, jam in on turn


      • #5
        Facing a standard live cash game raise at low stakes (3x-4x), you can make an argument for a call. Its a little on the wide side, and not something I would do against a tough table, but most openers are very wide at these stakes making it an exploitable play. If villain was a decent REG and only opening 10-12%, its a fold. But facing a 6x raise, it really narrows villains range to stronger hands (unless you have a read), making this a fold for me. I don't think I am 3-betting very often here facing a 6x raise unless I know his large bets mean weakness.

        Another thing to consider pre is the stack sizes. Facing these massive opens, keep in mind the SPR will be significantly reduced post flop. Most low stakes players don't top off when they get below 100bb, so you will often be playing for stacks on flops and doing so very multi-way (because low stakes players never fold pre). Which should greatly tighten your range.

        As played, I lean towards a jam. Villain has lots of As combos that you want to get value from and protect against. Villain could also have so many single card spade combos that we don't want to give a free card too. It's a disaster to check here and say villain holds Ax2s and hits a spade on the river. Low stakes players will stack off here with worse sooo often.

        Yes, he might have hit his flush or set, but you did your part on the flop betting 2/3 pot. So if he hit it, he hit it.


        • RealJPB
          RealJPB commented
          Editing a comment
          FWIW, while I’ve been opening to 3x / $6, the standard in these games is very much 5x-6x / $10-$12. Folding pre to this sizing is still probably best but I don’t think his range is as narrow as it should be.

      • #6
        3 bet as bluff or fold according to the charts preflop. Depends on the player


        • #7
          So for one, the charts don't apply to a 6x raise, so I don't think we can follow them rote here. And Jred's right, when players are opening this large by default you can play a much tighter game and do just fine (presuming you play enough that everyone doesn't fold as soon as you breathe on the pot). So yeah, to a 6x raise UTG from the player described, even if this is the table standard, this is a fold preflop. (Also FWIW, I read a mathematical explanation somewhere that open raising more than 5x preflop in a non-ante game applies too much pressure for you to win the hand to make it sound, so regardless of the table standard you shouldn't open raise more than 5x ever.)

          In any case, after the preflop call, you might be beat already as the BB has most of the suited hands (though not all given the open size) but you need to put him in now to target the hands that have draws against you. I don't see how you can fold river if a blank comes, and checking just gives his draws a free look. It's bothersome that he flat called your strong looking flop bet against the strong looking UTG opener who was left to act, but given the flop and current SPR I don't think you're going anywhere So jam and take your licks if he's gotcha, scoop the pot a majority of the time if he doesn't.

          Also, the reason I asked player type is to see whether he was nittish. Since what you described is more like strong TAG leaning too tight but not nit, I don't think you can get away.