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Live Tournament ICM Suicide?

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  • Live Tournament ICM Suicide?

    Hero (33K in chips) is around average stack with 24/60 entrants remaining (10 cash). Villain seems a fairly competent player but I've seen him showdown hands like QQ and AK after limping pre.


    Blinds are 600/1200 with BB ante.


    Folds round to villain (CO) who limps, SB calls and hero checks in BB with T7dd.


    Pot (4800): Flop comes T42 with a diamond. Checks to villain who bets 1200. Both blinds call.


    Pot (8400): Turn 7h creating a backdoor flush draw. Checks to villain who bets 2000. SB folds and hero check-raises to 6500. Villain elects to call.


    Pot (21400): River Js. Hero shoves for remaining 23K. Villain tank calls and shows down JT for a better two pair.


    Was my line too aggressive? Is shoving here ICM suicide given I’m unlikely to get called by worse or is this okay seeing as I can have 22 and 44 for sets here?



  • #2
    Definitely not ICM suicide as you’re too far from the bubble to really worry about the money. You only have 27bb and still need a quarter of the field to bust. No chance you can fold to min cash, nor should you want to.

    The shove could be a mistake here depending on what you’ve seen from villain before and your image. He tanked with JT which is not ideal. How often are you called by worse then?

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    • #3
      Apologies, maybe ICM suicide is the wrong phrase but like is this a punt? I feel like this might go check/check on the river and then I'm left with around 15BB giving me the chance to run it up.

      I think my image at this point is fairly tight but I don't think its impossible that he calls river with say AT, QQ or 42s (ranging V is hard at the stakes I play). Also, is the turn sizing okay? Like would 8-10K have put him in a tougher spot with Tx or an overpair?

      Thanks for the reply!

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      • RealJPB
        RealJPB commented
        Editing a comment
        As someone who has punted a few tournaments I don’t think this is an awful punt but shoving probably isn’t ideal. What were the stakes here? I don’t think it’s impossible either that he calls a smaller bet with more hands you beat, so a smaller bet could be better.

    • #4
      In general ICM should be considered on the bubble and at the final table during large pay jumps. Basically just pay attention to large pay jumps.

      Going from $0 - min cash for example, and final table when a place has a big difference cash wise between it compared to the places prior to it. This usually occurs around the top 3-4 spots depending on the size of the field.

      I am not trying to understate its importance, I just think so many people misunderstand ICM and place too much emphasis on it.

      In your hand example, I would prefer a bet here when checked to on the flop for a few reasons:

      1. This is a very dry board and connects well with your range. You can basically have all the nut hands - sets, 2 pair, and solid top pairs.
      2. We can get value from worse such as under pairs to our pair and even two overs.
      3. It's a dynamic flop. Meaning there are many turn cards that could change how strong our hand is.
      4. Let's get some money in and build a pot for all the times we are ahead. Taking this pot down with a c-bet and adding 5k to our stack would be a nice boost.

      I don't think we need to bet big here as many of the reasons that we have for betting also fall into the smaller sizing category. But enough to accomplish the tasks above. I would probably go somewhere around 1500-2000 and proceed from there.
      Last edited by JredA; 08-08-2019, 01:50 PM.

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      • #5
        Up to the river seems fine to me. I would either check / call the river or bet something like 10k on the river. When you jam you're never getting called by worse, you are losing value from some Tx that might find a fold.

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