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wsop $800 double stack hand - another how do I play JJ post

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  • wsop $800 double stack hand - another how do I play JJ post

    I’m at the WSOP for the summer. Wanted to hear feedback on one hand that happened today in the $800 Double Stack.

    Blinds 300/500 with 500 bb ante

    Hero MP w JJ (stack 57k, above table average)
    2 limps
    Hero 2k
    CO calls (sucks since that leads to all the others calling)
    BB calls
    2 limpers call
    One of the bigger preflop hands we’ve had that went to a flop.

    Flop 2s4c10h
    Hero 6k
    1st preflop limper calls. (I notice his hand shake. Older guy, hard to tell if that's why but seems like he has a monster).
    Turn Ks
    He bets 12k pretty quickly.
    I fold JJ face up since he’s friendly and figure he’ll show.
    He shows 22.

    Question is about sizing.
    Preflop: Should I have played small ball? Same results but less pot bloating? Seemed like 4x raise was good idea at the time and hoping to either take it down or isolate. Larger raise would have probably gotten 22 out though.
    On the turn 6k into 10,300 seem fine, or maybe I could bet less with same result?
    Last edited by Ditzy Blonde; 06-17-2019, 03:11 AM.

  • #2
    Starting stacks of 40k for the most part?

    Preflop: I actually think your raise seems a little on the small size for this depth with ante and two limpers. I would 2.5-3k. It doesn't bloat if not as many players call. And why wouldn't you want to build a pot with JJ? Why wouldn't you want 22 in there?

    Flop: Bet seems too big for such a dry board and such a big pot (relative to BB). I would bet around 3k or 4k.

    Turn: Good read! His turn donk is a bad sign, and combined with your live read that's a really good fold.

    Also areful about showing, you're not just showing the guy in the hand but everyone else at the table too. (you obviously know this, just wanted to mention)
    Last edited by reeeeeeper; 06-17-2019, 07:34 AM.

    Comment


    • Ditzy Blonde
      Ditzy Blonde commented
      Editing a comment
      If i bet 1/3 pot on flop I wonder how many high cards and pairs decide to stay in?

    • reeeeeeper
      reeeeeeper commented
      Editing a comment
      Hopefully a lot, they're almost all way behind, get paid.

  • #3
    Pre-flop with two limpers, I also like a larger sizing than 4x, maybe going to 5.5-6 instead.

    On the flop, I agree that you're better off with the smaller sizing.

    When this player type donks the turn, that's the biggest tell in the world--you're almost never ahead here and he wants to get paid off. Letting your overpair go has got to be right.

    Comment


    • #4
      No offense .. but I see that live players are really softer.


      I would have raised much bigger ... 22 likely would have come into pot anyway.. You got away cheap ! Good read ! Why show , face up ?

      Comment


      • CrazyEddie
        CrazyEddie commented
        Editing a comment
        If you can play that well post flop ... does preflop matter ?

      • Ditzy Blonde
        Ditzy Blonde commented
        Editing a comment
        "You got away cheap"
        lol, probably true. thinking about it i feel like a bigger raise if called by CO was getting called by all the same folks. The challenges of playing less experienced players.

        I was not going to show any hands but in this case felt like I wanted to for a few reasons. One was to help me not tilt after losing a previous hand (had a bigger stack a little while ago and some entitlement tilt going on). I wanted my read verified. Also I'd been a little frisky intentionally and didn't mind showing a good hand/fold. (People usually profile me as tighter and I've been experimenting with showing down some wide board coverage early on so that I can get paid later.) Not sure it was good to show still but there weren't really experienced players at the table which does make a difference. I wouldn't have shown at a different table.
        Last edited by Ditzy Blonde; 06-17-2019, 02:20 PM.

      • reeeeeeper
        reeeeeeper commented
        Editing a comment
        Those sound like valid pragmatic reasons to show.

    • #5
      Yeah, I'm with everyone else on this one. I would have made a pot sized bet which is 2300, slightly more is fine too, Blinds 1300 + 1000 for the 2 limpers.

      If the limpers are habitual and almost always limp call I will size it up big here, like 2800-3000 to get max value from my premium hands.
      The reason is they are almost always limping with small pairs and small to middle suited connectors hoping to smash the flop. vs them
      the flop most often goes check bet fold. So we get to bleed them pre-flop and know they only stick around when they hit a nice piece of the board.


      Nice fold


      Comment


      • reeeeeeper
        reeeeeeper commented
        Editing a comment
        If you'd played as much PLO as I have you'd find it easy.

        http://www.pokerjunkie.com/calculati...t-bet-in-poker

      • kkep
        kkep commented
        Editing a comment
        Haha I have never once played PLO. In fact I only play Hold em. I don't wager on anything else whatsoever. No sports, no slots no nothing.
        Thanks

      • Ditzy Blonde
        Ditzy Blonde commented
        Editing a comment
        "always limping with small pairs and small to middle suited connectors"
        that should be true a lot but this particular table was a lot of middle aged guys, mostly pretty new to wsop, who I've noticed like to do weird sneaky things with big pairs. of course when they all just call I know it's going to be smaller pairs, suited connectors, and decent As.

        I felt like I should have raised more once i saw the result. Don't really like JJ in EP or MP though. I don't think less than 6k would have gotten any of those guys to fold though!
        Last edited by Ditzy Blonde; 06-17-2019, 01:36 PM.

    • #6
      A pot size bet includes your call in figuring it. Thus the pot has 2300 in it, we call for 500 so a pot sized raise would be 2800 plus our 500 call for a total bet of 3300.

      Comment


      • #7
        In case anyone wants to know: About a level after that JJ hand I raised AQo in CO 2.5x. BTN is spunky guy who has 3bet my opens a few times. This time he goes allin for about half my stack. I watch him for a bit and notice he looks nervous so decide to call. He tables 88 and spikes an 8.
        Not much working out after that and eventually I'm BB w 16bb left. SB puts me allin. I look down at AQ and instacall. He has AJ. He spikes J.
        Taking a day off, maybe just a STS, before I play the PH 200kGTD tomorrow.

        Comment


        • reeeeeeper
          reeeeeeper commented
          Editing a comment
          Played well, got unlucky, hello poker. Next time! GL mañana

      • #8
        Yup... just unlucky on results... but key for all of this is being sure to get in habit of adjusting your raise to # of limpers and your position (but NOT your hand)... most amateurs don’t raise enough to account for limpers (extra BB each), and prob another 1/2 BB for early position when relevant

        Its also helpful to shift your mindset on # of callers when you have premium hands... so long as you make them pay appropriately, you want them calling with worse... you won’t win em all, but 3/4 will fit or fold... and others won’t be able to get away from a pair or draw... but, JJ is just tough to play for everyone... Nice fold!

        Comment

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