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What Is Your Play Here?

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  • What Is Your Play Here?

    This hand is from the 1k which began yesterday.

    ​​​We're playing ten-handed with blinds at 400/800/800. The first five players muck and the hijack (fairly new to the table and has shown no aggressive tendencies) open-limps.

    The cutoff and button fold, while the SB (very laggy) raises 1800. You have 44 and 18k.

    Fold or shove, based on your opponents' tendencies?

  • #2
    I can get behind a shove here based on your reads on both players.


    • #3
      I could get behind jamming, but prefer a call here.

      SB is laggy but in the SB so might be stronger than usual. He's also raising quite small given there's a limper, which would make me a little suspicious.

      The HJ is passive, but you haven't seen whether he's trappy, which some guys like this are because when they raise everyone (rightfully) folds, so they sometimes limp-jam their premiums.

      That said I find no fault in jamming. I think the immediate pot odds are too good to fold though.

      You have 22BB and have to call 1.2BB to see a flop for a 5BB pot. That's good immediate odds and more than enough implied odds ratio to set mine. Also, if the limper does wake up with a limp-reraise you can get away. Especially if the suspicion about the SB pans out and he decides to play.

      When you jam 44 you are never in good shape when called. You have a lot of utility with a 20BB stack that I don't think you should give up here for the times they both fold and you pick up 5BBs. When you jam the proposition is a stack of about 45BBs, 25BBs or 0BBs. The problem is your equity against the calling range is pretty meh. If you call, you get away with a stack of 20BB when you miss and 30BB+ when you hit (since the SB is LAG you're sure to get at least 2.5 more BBs). When you hit, your equity against their ranges is pretty woo! The difference between 20BB and 25BB isn't all that much given the risks involved IMO.
      Last edited by reeeeeeper; 06-12-2019, 10:31 AM.


      • #4

        " The difference between 20BB and 25BB isn't all that much given risks ... "
        1, folding could be ok too

        2, Remind me to limp reraise from LP ... when SB raises, BB flats.

        3, How about a 3bet ( non all-in ) ?

        "When you jam 44 you are never in good shape when called... "
        Last edited by CrazyEddie; 06-12-2019, 10:38 PM.


        • reeeeeeper
          reeeeeeper commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't see how folding could possibly be ok getting 4:1 direct with a pocket pair. 44 is 2:1 against even if his range is JJ+,AK and 3:1 against bringing in the limper with a wide range.
          Last edited by reeeeeeper; 06-12-2019, 12:41 PM.

        • CrazyEddie
          CrazyEddie commented
          Editing a comment
          set mine is overrated... say you hit a 4, probably check .. they might chk ... you don't get anything, or not much.

          electing to call here is like kicking the can down the road...

          I guess it isn't all math. Stage of the tournament .. grasp of your opponents ...

          I like shoving ( or folding ) better than calling ... what of a reraise ? ( because a reraise might work better than a shove !! )

          I haven't used icmizer yet .... can we plug it in ?
          Last edited by CrazyEddie; 06-12-2019, 11:04 PM.

      • #5
        I would fold or call to set mine. I'm not precisely sure what JL says but it's something like if they have 10x the bet behind maybe 8x it's ok to set mine.

        So if it's 10x which happens to also be 10x your stack and the V has you covered it's probably best to call and take a flop here.


        • reeeeeeper
          reeeeeeper commented
          Editing a comment
          10x the amount you need to call, which in this case is only 10*1k and he has 18k.

        • kkep
          kkep commented
          Editing a comment
          Ok, so still good tho right? Or is this where we lean more towards a fold or raise?

      • #6
        While Villain here was laggy as noted, I thought through those times we'd played pots and he'd given me a degree of respect, actually. One in particular had been when blinds were 2/4/400 and UTG (loose-passive) raised to 800, he made it 2300 to go and, with 25k, I came in for 7000 from the next seat with AA. Opener, then he mucked.

        Long and short of it was I shoved over him and got snapped by JJ. All's well that ends well: flopped a four to double through, for a while anyway.


        • #7
          When you can read the dealer and see that 4 coming, all good!


          • #8
            I would set mine ,you are getting slightly the correct odds , if the board favours your range ,play your range but dont go broke , I dont like small pairs (and offsuited broadways) to shove if you dont have to , here you dont have to , Because when you get called you are Mostly flipping at best and I want an edge


            • #9
              Shoving here is right on the borderline of too much. Our stack is right at 10x the raisers open size (which is the guideline I use for the max amount I like to shove over a raise with).

              On top of that we still have a player left to act.

              A few things to consider:

              Is the SB sitting on a huge stack? Are they a solid player?

              Have they shown anything to lead you to believe they would call wide here?

              Depending on your image, solid players with a stack would probably call off with a hand like 55+ here and certain strong broadway combo's. Meaning when called we are probably crushed or flipping at best.

              The more likely the raiser is to fold, obviously, the more profitable a shove becomes.

              Have we seen the original limper limp call a lot?

              If we are very confident or have live reads that the limper is not loving their hand I don't think calling is a huge mistake.

              All in all, this is a marginal spot at best and I think I take the fold route when all is factored in. Especially if we have a table full of recreational players. We have plenty of chips with a structure that allows for us to pick our spots moving forward (I think this event had 40 min levels).


              • CrazyEddie
                CrazyEddie commented
                Editing a comment
                interesting how you arrived at this decision to fold ... Shoving is the unexploitable play , right ? Whereas if you call ... you're never trapping there.... and the first limper should always reraise.