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Some hands from Vegas during WSOP

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  • Some hands from Vegas during WSOP

    I have been lurking a reading here for a while. I need to provide some input.

    Given this and various other studies I "think" I have been improving. I generally only play tournaments. Considering changing that . . . However . . . here are two hands from my Vegas trip that I though were interesting. You may not think they are . . . however. . . . for the first I am wondering if I did the right thing given that I got a bit of abuse at the table for. . .

    HAND #1:

    Planet Hollywood $250.00 for a 1/4 Mill Guarantee

    Effective Stack = 150 BB

    Villain: Biker looking guy. Reg. About 45. Talking a lot about how well he does at the Venetian.

    Villain = Button
    Me: = SB

    Note: BB is very very good. Maybe the best I have ever played with.

    Folds to Villain who makes it 2.5x.

    I have Q10cc

    I consider raising but the BB has me a little worried. He has a huge stack. Plus, Q10cc seems like a good hand to see a flop with (error?) So I call. BB folds.

    Flop = 8 5 2 rainbow with one club.

    I check, Villain makes it 1/2 pot.

    My thoughts: I have two overs and a back door flush draw. Board is much better for my range. Odds are Villain has missed completely. I am looking to take the pot with a lead on the turn if the turn is a card in my range (10 or lower).

    TURN = Q

    Well now I have good equity and I want to keep him in with his whole range so I check with the plan of calling.

    He checks behind. (Now I figure I am ahead).

    River (I forget, but a brick)

    I check with the goal of picking off a bluff which I am 100% certain this player type will try. He bets about 1/2 pot. I call and take the pot. He mucks . . .

    He then gets angry with me and tells a guy to his right which he has been talking to a lot (another reg.) about how horrible players like me who call the flop with nothing are. He keeps asking me aggressively what did I see on the flop.

    How bad was my play?

    HAND #2:

    Aria $400.00

    I am BB with 28BB and I am covered by the Villain. Villain is table chip leader on the Button. Villain is good. Young guy about 28.

    Folds to Villain who makes it 2.5x. SB folds. I look down at KK and 3 bet to 7x. Thought about jamming but I though I was slightly too deep. Very slightly. Plus I want a call.

    Villain jams. Even though he has a lot of chips I am still at least 1/4 of his stack. So I figure 1010+ Ak+

    I call.

    This is not the type of hand where telling the result changes things because you need to know the results to understand why I am worried.

    He has Ako . . . . A on the river (as usual) and I am done.

    If I had just called his bet I would have likely taken down the pot on the flop or the turn (board run out was crap for AK until the river).

    I don't know . . . just bugs me.


  • #2
    Before I read your hand history I'll make one comment. I have never actually heard good players comment
    on other players bad or good play for that matter at a table. Good players will probe for information but that
    is about all you will get out of them related to poker.

    That said I have had good players make a comment to me after we completed a hand hands up. very begin stuff tho.


    • #3
      Hand 1

      I like the cold call from the SB. We are OOP with a decent but marginal hand so we don't need to bloat
      the pot so I believe calling is the correct play. I also think calling for folding on that flop bet is
      reasonable we are barely getting the right price vs a B open range to call.

      Let guys like that keep chirping and don't say anything to them. I think you played that hand fine. I'm
      not sure I like a donk lead on a blank turn tho hand you done that.

      More knowledgeable players may have a different opinion.

      Time for dinner...


      • #4
        If other players berate you it sucks, but it probably means you're playing well most likely.

        Hand 2: Good thinking not jamming or calling. Well played.

        Hand 1: Also well played and thought out except for one thing. Because the player in the BB is strong you should be MORE likely to 3-bet there to knock him out of the pot! The last thing you want to do is just call and give him odds to stay in the hand and cause you trouble. You're plenty deep enough to 3-bet there with QTs. Otherwise, you played the hand well and your thought process was good IMO.


        • #5
          I would have played the hand 1 the same way, and you ran into a complainer. Besides the backdoor flush and two overs you also have a backdoor straight draw. Re...eper makes a good point about 3betting to keep the BB out of the hand.

          Hand 2 give him a shoving range of AQs+, JJ++ and AKo with no bluffs and you have 63% equity. You want to call his shove, and ask if you can borrow more chips!! The runout does not matter, long term this call is hugely +EV.

          I give you a well played on both hands.


          • #6
            I think you will be hard pressed to find a quiz that has us 3 betting a hand like this out of the SB.
            QTs is to good a hand to play as a bluff and not good enough to play an inflated pot OOP.

            What's worse? playing a bloated pot OOP vs a strong opponent or taking a flop to see what
            develops?. We also have to consider we have to give up when 4-bet and that's a terrible result.


            • #7
              Hand 2
              I would have 3 bet slightly more than the minimum. I don't want them to fold out worse hands and
              he was in very bad shape vs KK. It also gives us the betting lead on the flop. Either way it's an easy
              call off facing a 4 bet jam.
              When I face a bet a 3 bet that large (7x) I'm usually thinking JJ or worse, AK maybe AQ.


              • #8
                In regards to hand #1, my strategy out of the SB is heavily dictated by what my thoughts are of the BB. The better the player, the more tight/aggressive I am going to be. The weaker the player the more likely I am going to get involved with a passive strategy and wider range when deep stacked.

                The two biggest reasons for taking the initiative with a strong player in the BB are:

                1. You do not want to cap your range by just calling and give the good player in the BB the go-ahead to take the initiative and 3-bet putting you in a brutal spot. In this spot, from his eyes he notices a likely wide BTN open and a weak call by the SB. This is a great spot for him to squeeze with a wide range and take down a nice pot.

                2. You will be giving the BB great odds to call with a wide range and have to play OOP against a good player in the BB and a player with position on the BTN. Putting you in a tough spot in all spots except for nutted flops.

                Therefore, if I think the player in the BB is very solid I am going with a more tight/linear range and 3-betting almost my entire range out of the SB, especially this deep. This hand falls into that range so I am happy to 3-bet pre and see a flop or take it down without a flop.


                • #9
                  I don't like the preflop call on the SB in hand one - it is asking for trouble. Just 3-bet or fold.

                  Hand 2 was perfect, well done.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kkep View Post
                    What's worse? playing a bloated pot OOP vs a strong opponent or taking a flop to see what
                    develops?. We also have to consider we have to give up when 4-bet and that's a terrible result.
                    I would prefer to 3bet and potentially take down the pot there and then. Even if called you have the initiative and an uncapped range going to the flop. This is far better than just flatting in my opinion - no chance of taking down the pot preflop, big chance of being squeezed off the pot preflop, and playing a capped range (unless you would also be calling with AA, AK etc. here) OOP against potentially multiple skilled opponents.

                    Also getting 4bet and having to fold is not a terrible result. We are fairly deep and this won't hurt our stack much, it also shows our opponents that we are playing balanced, thought out ranges instead of being too value heavy and this will make us harder to play against going forwards.


                    • #11
                      I stand corrected


                      • #12
                        Actually, i'm curious how you've already been able to make such an early judgment about the BB as "best you've played with"...

                        Enough good comments here... 3 betting w/ the QTs rather than flatting is exactly what i've been trying to do more often... for tight players it feels dangerous to invest so many BB (you'll prob have to make it 7-7.5BB) w/ QTs, but likelihood of button 4-bet is low, likelihood of a button fold is much higher, and the future value of having the button know that you MAY 3-bet, is worth the investment!

                        This reminds me of playing Main Event last year, and picking up AK on the button in the first 30 min... raising standard and being 3-bet by the big blind... 4-betting early in the ME was the scariest thing I've ever done in poker, but it worked, and it paid off in image impact. Some bets you just have to make.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BruceO View Post
                          Actually, i'm curious how you've already been able to make such an early judgment about the BB as "best you've played with"...

                          Good point. This is a problem with writing out hands later on as you lose chronology. At the time of this hand I suppose I had just not seen him do anything stupid. I ended up playing for about 9 hours with him and the final conclusion was based on that entire scope of data as opposed to what i knew at the time of the hand. Also . . keep in mind that I have not played for years and years so . . . it is a small pool.


                          • #14
                            Hand 1 your play was super Standard and fine , I would played it exactly like you, on Flop with 2 overs and bdfd and bdsd you have to call to this betsize

                            But I disagree with some of your thought processes (10 or lower in your turn range ?? Remember calling range from SB very strong, a lot of cards Higher than 10)

                            I am interested in why do you think is the BB that shark of a player ? Is he a Superstar player or unknown and his style of playing that did Impress you much?
                            Last edited by Guido; 06-11-2019, 01:15 AM.


                            • #15
                              Hand 2 you played fine also , maybe 3 Betting pre bigger oop

                              side Note AA and KK are typical Trapping Hands, so I would flat call them preflop here


                              • #16
                                Hand 1:
                                I like a 3bet with the QTs against the button raiser and strong BB based on your observations. Postflop, I do like the way you played it. The flop call was fine because it didnt likely hit his range and many cards could improve your holding. And then since you know he is agressive, you uses your top pair/meh kicker as a bluff catcher and not building a huge pot.

                                And hand 2 I think you played perfectly and just got unlucky. JL would have liked the equity you won, even though you lost the pot