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  • Hand Review

    Borgata
    Level 4 200/400/400
    H 37000 V has me covered

    UTG+1 Old guy in his 70's limps. He was open raising with big aces and probably JJ+ but he wasn't the typical old guy. He made some bad bluffs and some crazy plays, he was fighting for pots.

    UTG+2 limps good player in his early 30's but not a poker wiz
    H CO Ad9d thinks about raising the limpers which I had done often but decides to limp behind this hand. This was only 1 of 2 hands I limped in with not on a blind.
    B calls
    BB calls.

    POT 2200
    Flop AcTd4h
    Everyone checks. I like to check an Ace sometimes so I thought it was fine here in a limped pot.

    Turn 6d
    check
    check
    UTG+2 bets 1000
    CO raises to 2500
    B fold
    BB fold
    UTG+1 fold
    V calls

    Pot 7200
    River 2d
    V checks
    H bets 7000
    V tank folds showing the As

    I feel like I left a lot of value on the table. I don't mind my limp in check flop because I do that so rarely.
    I think my turn bet was to small tho. My thoughts were he is taking a stab or has a marginal hand or
    draws which I wanted to keep in so 3000-3500 would have probably be better?

    On the river the only draw that came in was the flush which he is unlikely to have and the only other
    hand that would have made sense for an easier call would have been the A2s so I suppose I should
    have went smaller, maybe 4000? I tried to look bluffy and hoped he was a calling station which he kinda
    was up to this point. What also sux is if I made the turn 3000 I could have bet the river 5000-6000 and I
    think he snap calls.

    Writing these hands out helps me think about them much better but I am curious what you all think about
    the line I took especially the bet sizing's. Going for full value is something I rarely did before joining here but
    now I feel like I do it to much, or at least in the wrong spots. 3 months ago my R bet would have been 3500
    vs all player types.

    Quick fun hand with that 70+ year old
    I had been card dead for quite a while. Old dude UTG limps in, folds to me in the CO A3o I raise to 3x +1
    B calls.
    Flop ATx
    UTG checks
    H checks
    B bets 1/4 pot, pot is around 16,000 now
    UTG goes all in and has B covered by about 15,000 (15BB)
    H folds B calls showing AT UTG 99 < - not your typical old man lol

  • #2
    I'm not a fan of the raise on the turn - I think a call would've been better.

    You have a marginal made hand with some showdown value considering the action so far, and by raising you open yourself up to being blown off the hand. By flatting you do invite further calls by those still to act but that boosts your implied odds with your flush draw.

    Also, after you do raise the turn, if the river is anything other than a 9 or diamond and your opponent leads into you it's going to be a nasty spot.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think you could go either way pre flop (limp behind or iso raise). If villains were calling raises a lot and straight forward or ch/folding a lot post flop I could definitely get behind an iso raise pre. In this spot I would tend to raise with my standard UTG+2 range and A9s def falls within that.

      On the flop I like a bet here. Yes you are marginal, but there is a decent amount of money in this pot and I want to thin the field and get some value while I can.

      AK, AQ and some AJ would have raised pre-flop a decent portion of the time. You got checks from everyone in front of you in a limped pot so that weakens their ranges as well. All the weaker Ax are going to call and a bet also helps to get some protection from all the broadway straight combo's. Any K,Q,J or T on the turn will likely help some of villains range.

      I don't think we need to bet large here in a limped pot to accomplish our goals so I would probably go a little less than half pot. 1k sounds good and proceed from there.

      As played I am not a fan at all of the raise on the turn.

      Are you raising for value? Is it a semi-bluff? Are you turning your hand into a bluff? When we are contemplating raising, especially the turn always consider why? And also think about the what if's. What if I get re-raised, what if he just calls? Whats my river sizing in the pot size with my raise, etc, etc.

      In this spot, IF you are raised its a disaster with this much equity. I prefer a call as played.

      If I was villain I would be very suspicious of this raise as it makes little sense. You limp in, check the flop and raise a 6d turn. The only value hands that make sense are A6s and 66. Everything else is a bluff. Due to your lack of aggression both pre and on the flop it is very hard to credibly rep a strong hand on this turn.

      As far as your river sizing goes, diamond draws are your obvious bluffs on this turn card and you got there. I would bet very small as played and target Ax and Tx hands and hope villain is not a great hand reader. Betting small also gives villain the perception of fold equity and a chance to spazz out and re-raise you.

      Remember villains line - he limped in, checked the flop, bet smallish on the turn, and just called a raise, then checked the river. This does not sound like a hand that could handle a ton of heat on the river.
      Last edited by JredA; 05-16-2019, 09:24 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        When facing multiple limpers, this is a call preflop. If it was a single limper and you had an opportunity to isolate the single limper, this would be a raising hand, but against multiple limpers, this is my "basic" range:



        This would be my rough strategy. KQ/KJs/QJs are on the cusp. Your could raise or limp them. Jonathan's ranges in Mastering Small Stakes NLHE has those hands in the raising range. I like to keep KQ for K high flops where no one has AK and I can confidently build a pot with that hand, but it really depends on the opponents.

        At Borgata, where the player pool is stronger I think I would probably move that into the raising range.

        Anyway, I think you may be overplaying this hand post flop.

        A9s is borderline here for me on this flop. It could be premium made as likely no one has a better Ax combo, but that is not enough to say it is premium made. In a 5 way pot, one pair hands are not very strong.

        Even if A9s is a premium made hand when everyone checks to you on the flop, on the turn, this hand cannot be a raise. That is just over playing the value of your hand. Remember that when a hand falls into 2 categories, draw or marginal made, and it is near the top of your marginal made, you should play the hand for it actual value and not its potential value.

        Comment


        • #5
          Only comment is that I think you need to put *something* out there on the flop. Checking AX on AXX seems fine to me heads-up, but I really don't think it's a good idea in a multiway pot like this. Bet 800 and simplify your decisions moving forward.

          Comment


          • #6
            reeeeep[er this hand would have worked out so much better for me had I only threw a 1/3 pot bet out on the flop.

            So assuming the BB is my biggest threat and giving him a pre-flop calling range of 94%
            Let's assume he bets AJ AT A4 T4 on the flop.
            Assuming that, my hand is ahead 94% of the time on the turn and my hand equity is 88%.
            Suppose he doesn't bet anything our hand is still best 47% with 60% equity.
            I doubt he even has AJ in his calling range but lets assume he does and bets his AJ combos and his T4o but slow plays A4 AT and T4S.
            We are ahead his range 58% with 66% equity.
            In all scenarios we are drawing to the nuts.

            I'm crushing the V's range as I see it in a similar fashion.
            Should we really be worried about pot control here?

            Comment


            • reeeeeeper
              reeeeeeper commented
              Editing a comment
              My prime concern here is allowing 4 players to see a free turn when you likely have the best hand and can simplify your decisions on later streets by thinning the field and getting some information. The big disaster in my mind is someone hitting something like the following for free on the turn: a 2 with 22, a K with QJ, etc. Hands the wouldn't see the turn or way be getting the wrong price even with a smaller bet. Also, when it checks around and then action picks up on later streets you have little to work with as far as figuring whether you have the best hand. If you bet you can narrow the range of anyone who sticks around. Checks on the flop could have been going for a check-raise or check-call, but you'll never know. Also, you take the lead, which is useful as you can drive the turn if you get position out of it by making the button fold.

          • #7
            Flop chk , turn raise ... then river pot it. Tricky & aggressive.... I think the line is fine if it suits your image and your opponent... I'm sure it will work on some opponents.. maybe not this one since he folded ace and showed you. What that means ? Maybe this guy isn't calling anything on river after turn raise ...

            Guess he prides himself on his read ... Not in his interest to show


            There is something to be said about the 4 way flop.... maybe he would have called if it were HU.
            Last edited by CrazyEddie; 05-16-2019, 08:25 PM.

            Comment

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