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Two Pair on Turn Facing 4-Bet from Villain Capable of Bluff-Raising Turns and Rivers

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  • Two Pair on Turn Facing 4-Bet from Villain Capable of Bluff-Raising Turns and Rivers

    I took a shot at the higher-stakes 5/10 cash game. Players bluff considerably more frequently at these stakes than at 2/5. I was up almost $2K until going back to near even in this hand.

    I opened for $30 from the button with Qc2c with $2820 in stack. The SB folds. The BB, who had bluff-raised the turn and river a few times earlier in the session, called with $1695 in stack. Pot $65 going to the flop.

    Flop AsQdJd, giving me middle pair. He checked to me. I c-bet for $35. Since I have a huge range advantage on this flop, I am c-betting 100% of my range. He called. Pot $135 going to the turn.

    Turn 2h, giving me 2-pair. He checked to me. I c-bet for $70. He check-raised to $160. I realized that there were a lot of bad rivers for me, including an A or J that would counterfeit my 2-pair, a K or T that would put out 4 to a straight, and a diamond to complete his potential flush draws. I re-raised to $400. He then 4-bet to $1060, with just $570 behind. To most players, I would either flat the $160 raise or fold this, but I did not feel I could fold 2-pair to his playing tendencies, even with over 300bb effective stacks. I 5-bet jammed for the last $570. He snap-called and turned over KhTd for the nuts.

    Would it have been better to just flat call the $160, especially since I was IP and could see his reaction to the river before I had to act? Or should I have folded to his 4-bet?

    By the way, the river came Th, which would have put 4 to a straight out there. I would not have called this river if he jammed $1,470 into the $455 pot, though I would have on blank rivers. I would have called up to the size of the pot on this river.

  • #2
    Would be interesting to see if a solver bets range on this flop or polarizes to get more value out of our nutted combos.

    If he's this aggressive I agree we can't fold to the check raise but I don't think we 3-bet the 2 pair here. We need to flat the XR with some strong hands otherwise our calling range will become too capped, and we lose to almost all of Villain's value range, while their bluffs have at least okayish equity against us. If he always stacks off with his diamond draws maybe a raise is good, but at this point I think we should generally be bluff catching.

    Once he 4-bets, it gets pretty gross. The thing is he doesn't need to have a ton of bluffs to give us the equity needed to stack off, because he isn't going to have a full complement of sets, 2 pairs, straights, because he's 3-betting them some frequency preflop....Really gotta ask if he's bluffing this line though, some aggressive players for sure, but many are going to be aggressive with their raises, but pretty honest with 3-bets+ post-flop. Definitely don't think we 5-bet jam though......Also worth noting how little his 4-bet left behind, gives himself little fold equity on river, likely to be very strong hand

    Gross spot though

    Comment


    • mriebel
      mriebel commented
      Editing a comment
      My friends agree with you about flatting the $160 check-raise.

  • #3
    Q2 is at the bottom of range for opening, even on the button. When you say he bluff-raised the turn, was it a semi-bluff or complete bluff? If you are new to this game and have not seen these players a lot, you could be making an incorrect assumption. We have all done this. A player 3 bets 4 times in a row and we think he is just trying to dominate us and make us fold. Well, we never consider he actually had hands those 4 times!!!

    It definitely is a flat on the turn. As Dilly pointed out, he has nothing left to bluff on the river and that is usually how a turn bluff is set up, with enough left to have fold equity on the river.

    I played 2/5 for a year in AC and at private clubs in NNJ. Whenever I was taking a shot at 5/10, I usually played a little tighter and would fold the bottom of my range. I would have folded Q2 preflop.

    Thanks!

    Comment


    • mriebel
      mriebel commented
      Editing a comment
      Which turn bet is a flat, the $160 check-raise or the $1050 4-bet?

  • #4
    The $160 turn bet is a check

    Comment


    • mriebel
      mriebel commented
      Editing a comment
      I mean, at what point should I have just flatted on the turn, after the $160 x/r or after the $1,050 4-bet?

    • NJpokermike36
      NJpokermike36 commented
      Editing a comment
      Again the $160 bet. Not sure how I could be more explicit
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