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Friendly "Home" game: 3 way pot, Bottom 2 pair vs turn shove and call

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  • Friendly "Home" game: 3 way pot, Bottom 2 pair vs turn shove and call

    Hi again everyone,

    I have another hand that I wanted to get some advice on. This was from a friendly "home" game that my poker buddies and I play on one of the poker apps.
    We play with a $50 buy-in and we get 200 chips each with blinds at 1/2. I'll just be reporting the action in chips to keep it simple rather than converting the numbers to cash value.


    Villain 1 [UTG+1]: 716 (Notes: Friendly guy, solid player. I only ever seem him show down with the nuts or 2nd nuts)
    Hero [HJ]: 253
    Villain 2 [Button]: 108 (Notes: New player. 2nd buy-in now. Plays very wide)

    Preflop action:
    UTG +1: Raises to 7
    Hero [HJ]: Calls 7 with 6c-3c (This was a very loose call compared to my "normal" range, but I'd been playing wider preflop since it was our home game so I could practice my postflop play)
    Button: Calls 7

    Pot: 24


    Flop action:
    UTG+1: checks
    Hero [HJ]: Bets 14
    Button: Calls 14
    UTG+1: Calls 14

    Pot: 66

    Ah-6d-3d Td

    Turn action:
    UTG +1: Checks
    Hero [HJ]: Bets 21
    Button: All-in for 94
    UTG+1: Calls for 94
    Hero [HJ]: ???

    I have 211 in my stack and UTG+1 covers me.

  • #2
    Fold pre, hard stop. There is literally no situation where you can flat 63s HJ v an UTG+1 open, unless UTG+1 is opening like 80%+ of hands. You can't practice post-flop play well if you're playing pre-flop like this, post-flop play is directly dependent on pre-flop range formation.

    We're now trying to figure out how to play 2 pair in a spot we should have literally no 2pair, it's just not a meaningful exercise. Probably worth mentioning though that multi-way, OOP v one opponents, with bottom 2pair, on a 3 diamond board with 2 Broadway cards and the initial raiser is UTG+1 , we are almost definitely not betting this turn. And we are 10000% folding to this rip.

    Probably also worth noting, if you've played a significant amount against Villain 1, he is not a solid player. No solid player is only showing down with nuts or 2nd nuts, tight is not solid.

    Respectfully, and with apologies if I'm mistaken, but based on this question I would highly recommend going through the fundamentals learning path, and then the Cash Game Masterclass, there's some fundamental issues with your thought process.


    • Dilly
      Dilly commented
      Editing a comment
      Blind.Defense Always good to ask questions only way we learn. As to your core question so to speak, we're looking at having a strong hand, in a situation where we have a range and probably nut disadvantage implying Villain has hands that beat our strong hand. Often times in this situation a solver will have us raise very rarely since raising our premium hands will leave our calling range very capped. Personally I simplify my strategy very often when we're raising very rarely and just don't raise at all, develop a raising strategy on good turns for you stay defensive on bad ones.

      Definitely do some studying on preflop rangers though. What I described above is generally happening when we're the BB. The optimal strategy does very little calling pre-flop except from the BB and B. Now this can go out the window in weaker games like home games, because our opponents aren't going to punish us enough by squeezing and forcing their position post-flop. But even when that's the case, widen you range to include hands that make the nuts. Suited AX KX, connectors that make the top end of straights more often than bottom. We want strong implied odd hands with limited reverse implied odds.

      In any situation post-flop, consider your entire range, your opponents entire range, how these ranges hit the board, and how your opponents will react to your actions. Stronger range advantages we bet/raise more frequently. Holding more nut hands, we bet/raise larger. Dynamic boards we bet larger. But again, remember your opponent, if they're going to triple barrel 70% of the time, why raise a nut hand, let them hang themself.

      It's a ton to think about, just gotta do the work off table lol

    • Blind.Defense
      Blind.Defense commented
      Editing a comment
      Dilly I think a big leak I have right now is that I overvalue low suited connectors (and I'm using the term "connector" liberally when talking about this hand in particular) when playing >100bb like at this home game. I think I took the concept of playing more implied odds hand deep stacked too far in this scenario. I was just re-visiting the pre-flop charts from the Cash Game Master Class and it folds out everything below 9-8s preflop from HJ facing an UTG+1 raise.

      When I play 10NL online, I'm definitely folding 6-3s from HJ against an early position raiser. I should really apply the same strategy to the friendly home game as well, it'll just be less fun for my friends lol

    • mriebel
      mriebel commented
      Editing a comment
      I actually like low suited connectors (say 54s) better than medium ones (say 87s) when facing raises against competent opponents. For one thing, competent opponents are more likely to play suited aces that can make a wheel (A4s) than those with middle cards (A7s). With 54s, I block some wheel suited aces that can cooler me in a flush-over-flush. I also like that one of the straights I could make with 54s is the wheel, which has significantly better implied odds on an A32 flop on which the preflop aggressor hit his ace than 87s has on a 654 or 965 flop, which don’t hit a typical preflop aggressor’s range that hard.

  • #3
    Exactly what Dilly said except from someone who is WAY better looking.


    • Blind.Defense
      Blind.Defense commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol yup. Sometimes I need to have to have someone rip me a new one for me to learn properly.

    • Dilly
      Dilly commented
      Editing a comment there no laughing emoji on this forum? I hate this platform lol

    • Blind.Defense
      Blind.Defense commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol y'all are really great, thanks for all of the help. I think it really does help to post and get critiques.

  • #4
    Easy fold on the turn. Either one of them could have called with the flush draw, and more than likely one of them has the flush with the action on the turn. You don’t have anywhere near the right pot odds to chase the boat.