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  • folding KK

    in a 1500 wsop event ...5th hand..does anyone ever fold kings after a 4s4h4d flop?

  • #2
    As it's only 5th hand you will have no reads yet on any opponents. What was the action preflop - Who was the original raiser/ 3 bettor? Was it a 4 or 5 bet pot preflop - this should help you decide if villain may have AA and/or eliminate hands containing a 4 from his range.
    Consider the range villain will be betting with here - you lose to AA and 4x. 6 combos of AA - how many 4x is he likely to have given the preflop action?

    It would take a very specific set of circumstances for me to consider folding kings on this board.


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    • ted p
      ted p commented
      Editing a comment
      thank you!!!...preflop UTG raised...I was CO and 3 bet with KK...flop 4/4/4..UTG leads all in with aprox 280 BB...I folded KK ..thought there was a lot of tournament ahead and losing to an all in did not seem logical at this point????

    • Tricky49
      Tricky49 commented
      Editing a comment
      Did you ever find out what villain had?

    • mriebel
      mriebel commented
      Editing a comment
      I would not fold there. He likely 4-bets pre or x/r’s with AA, and does not have many 4’s in his UTG opening range, maybe just Ac4c, and If he is loose, possibly 5c4c. I also highly doubts he shoves flopped quads immediately with a large stack.

  • #3
    unfortunately ...No

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    • #4
      find a charity, do not give away at poker tables.
      Last edited by b4uzzzz; 08-12-2021, 10:33 PM.

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      • #5
        To be honest it's really hard to put the villain on anything at all, bluff or value.

        I probably just let this go.

        You can't win a poker tournament on just the 5th hand, but you can certainly lose it.

        If he is playing maniacally there'll be further chances to stack him in the very near future.

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        • #6
          Why do we need to narrow his range so much here to AA?If we fold the top 1% of our range in such a dry flop and against a fishy donkbet allin,then we become very exploitable.I would make a crying fold with QQ maybe and JJ definitely

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          • #7
            Originally posted by GusP View Post
            we become very exploitable.
            How many times have you seen a hand like this? I'd argue that it's such a rare occurrence that it's fine to potentially be exploited here in order to avoid wild variance 5 hands into a tournament.

            In terms of MDF it's not even that big of an over-fold considering the ridiculous size of the bet in relation to the pot.

            That said, online this is definitely a slam dunk call for me because of the fact any variance would be cancelled out by the increased volume I am able to play anyway.

            EDIT: Sorry, just ran the numbers. In terms of MDF we can actually fold KK and not be exploited. We are not folding the top 1% of our range as you state, because we 3! facing an UTG range so we are playing with a tight range already.
            Last edited by LondonImp; 08-17-2021, 01:35 AM.

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            • GusP
              GusP commented
              Editing a comment
              This is the most important point to consider folding:the spr is so big that holding the 3rd best hand(behind AA and A4s or 54s that could potentially open/call raise) might not be ideal.But still it is weird if villain has these hands that he plays like that

            • LondonImp
              LondonImp commented
              Editing a comment
              I totally agree with what you're saying. But it's weird for villain to play ANY hand like that.

          • #8
            First thought is easy call. online as londonlmp said, it is a slam dunk call. Villain hardly has any 4's in his range and if he did have a 4, why would he shove here?

            It is very doubtful that villain has AA as he seems the type of player that would 4 bet AA . AA does not need much protection so why would he shove so big with it? It looks to me like he has JJ or QQ and doesn't want to see another card.

            I haven't played live in a while so maybe in the heat of the moment, i would panic and fold here but on reflection, it is a call.

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            • #9
              thanks for all the thoughtful insight.. if I had it to do over - I would call and let the chips fall where they may...now - i too think QQ or JJ did not want another card...I keep learning

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              • #10
                Here's my thinking from a psychological standpoint: I can say this with almost absolute certainty that no one holding a 4 in their hand would just donk jam here. They would have the best hand and will know by the river if it's even possible for their opponent to draw out on them ie (the turn and river are both an A or K). So likely, if he did have 4x, he would almost certainly check to the 3bettor on the flop.

                Also, if he had AA, he would almost always 4 bet you. The fact that he called preflop instead of 4 betting means he likely has something like 55-JJ or possibly QQ.

                Given the fact that he donk jammed the flop, this leads me to believe he had some sort of smaller pair and just spazzed out on you by jamming.

                In game I think I call here. But like London said, "you can't win a tournament on the 5th hand but you can certainly lose one."

                Comment


                • ted p
                  ted p commented
                  Editing a comment
                  thank you...if i had it to do over - I would call..there was 1 rebuy if I needed/wanted it

                • Maniac1130
                  Maniac1130 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Absolutely. For $1500, I can understand why you wouldn't want to rebuy!
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