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TP/TK oop against a fish and i am raised on flop

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  • TP/TK oop against a fish and i am raised on flop
    In general not a good spot against the random opponent.Probably call raise and fold if i dont improve.BUT the certain opponent was a big fish who played very loose and did all kind of bad moves(3betshove 48bb from btn with K8o lol).Anyway against such a loose and bad player i think we are very high in our range to fold

  • #2
    You are correct that we shouldn't fold, but that doesn't automatically mean that we should shove.

    He doesn't have very many value hands here (A9, A2, 99, 22) and so there's a good chance he could be over-bluffing.

    The problem is, if we shove he can simply fold his bluffs and call when he's beating us.

    There is an argument that he might overvalue a hand like AJ and call a shove, but if he's playing a bit wild then if we check-call flop and check turn he might just ship it in on us anyway.


    • #3
      LondonImp is spot on.
      I think there are some other factors you might need to be aware of.

      You open 2.5x with a 20BB stack in the BB. Since the BTN has your 50ishBB stack covered that is probably fine with your exact hand but I still prefer a 2x open. The reason is the BB has less incentive to jam when we open 2x which means our raise fold range will likely see more flops and the BTN might be less inclined to trap.

      You used a somewhat polarizing cbet 57% which might be fine. I don't think this is a spot the IP raises very often if it's even a thing. So then when we get raised it screams strength,

      On this flop I actually think our range wants to check. I believe we are at a range disadvantage. If you can split ranges effectively your exact hand would probably like to polarize if you can find the right combinations but that is really hard. Next level stuff that JL doesn't even get into much for us.

      So if you think about which hands we might want to polarize...I think AA is probably mixing so 99 A9s A9o A2s (lets call it 19 combos) AK AQ (24 more combos). BTW if you have 22 in your range add that too.

      I think many of our bluffs will be of the low equity variety with danglers to the 9 that can pick up equity on the turn whenever we get called.
      They also happen to block some of the IP floats and some value combos. Kd8d Kd7d / QTs Q8s JTs J8s T8s 87s probably diamonds and clubs. Maybe we use QTo and JTo with a club as throwaways/BD Draws
      That would give us 12 more combos...26 draws is probably pretty good here.

      Do we want to bluff under pairs like 33-88? I don't think so because they don't block anything. Maybe 77 and 88 bluff some....

      As you can see it's really hard for me (it took a lot of thought and I might be completely wrong) to find enough combos I want to bluff here OOP for 60% pot and range betting small is spewing I think.
      Of course if we can't find a reasonable number of bluffs we are playing face up and our opponents have a much easier time playing against us.

      I think most of the K high Front door FD are to good to start bluffing on the flop I think they mostly like to check call but again I'm not sure.

      This is a really interesting hand and I'm going to ask someone to run it on PIO. But I think this is going to be about a 85 - 90% range check/call.


      • #4
        So I constructed your range a bit tighter than GTO since there was a 20BB stack in the BB and I don't know how much that changes things if any.
        However using GTO pre-flop 40BB ranges (I was closer to 60BB) we are betting small with about 50% of our range. Facing a raise we either click it back or jam. We even bet some of our 9X which was surprising to me
        Last edited by kkep; 07-21-2021, 12:31 PM.


        • #5
          You have to bet some 9x because you have the range and the nut advantage.So my cbet should be a bit smaller.What surprises me is that you are saying bet 50% of our range.I would guess here we should bet like 80% of our range.Practically i cant imagine any hand in my range that i would check here against an average or bad player.Of course if opp is decent or very tough then you need to balance


          • kkep
            kkep commented
            Editing a comment
            Using the GTO ranges you have about 55/45 equity advantage but as I said I tweaked them a bit to give the BTN some traps. I would have some traps with a rejam in the BB but maybe it's not a thing but it does narrow your advantage to 53/48

        • #6
          There is a chance I was A9. I once stacked a player who I thought was terrible when he had AK on A9x. I raised in attenpt for him to put me in. However 3bat shoving K8 doesn't ring a bell.


          • #7
            Fold to a passive fish there. Against an aggressive fish, call if the flop is rainbow, jam if there are two of the same suit. Or maybe check-call and shove the turn if it does not complete the flush draw.


            • b4uzzzz
              b4uzzzz commented
              Editing a comment
              what kind of fish are you?

            • mriebel
              mriebel commented
              Editing a comment
              I am not a fish.

          • #8
            he is the fish that give other fish names.