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Should I have just raise folded?

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  • Should I have just raise folded?

    This is the final table of a 5 euro rebuy. It is early on

    So I'm on the button with pocket 3s. Blinds are about to change which will put me under 20 bigs. Action folds to me.

    The small blind has about 6 bigs and the big blind has about 60. Even though it is early in the final table I've raised twice from the button and been jammed on both times by the big blind.

    When action folds to me I'm not sure what to do. If I raise it is likely that I get jammed on by the big blind again. I think open folding any pocket pair on the button is just too nitty. I consider just limping and calling it off if the small blind jams and folding if the big blind jams but limping just screams weakness and I'm likely to be jammed on.

    In the end I decide to just jam from the button. I've checked the charts and they say the same thing, however obviously in bigger games I should consider ICM. The big blind ends up calling with pocket 6s.

    What should I have actually done? Should I have just min raised then folded to a jam?


    No Limit Hold'em Tournament T10,000/T20,000
    Buy-in: €1,500 GTD - Rebuy
    iPoker
    7 players
    Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

    Stacks:
    UTG - UTG (
    T817,464)
    UTG+1 - UTG+1 (
    T293,286)
    MP - MP (
    T1,185,116)
    CO - CO (
    T255,900)
    BTN - Hero (
    T427,015)
    SB - SB (T118,218)
    BB - BB (
    T1,303,001)

    Preflop: (
    T41,200, 7 players) Hero is BTN with 3♥ 3♦
    4 folds, Hero raises to T425,415 (all-in), 1 fold, BB calls T405,415

    Flop:
    7♦ 5♣ T♥ (T872,030, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T0, BB: T875,986)

    Turn:
    A♥ (T872,030, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T0, BB: T875,986)

    River:
    9♣ (T872,030, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T0, BB: T875,986)

    Total Pot:
    T872,030
    Hero shows 3♥ 3♦ (Pair of Treys)
    BB shows
    6♥ 6♣ (Pair of Sixes)

    BB wins T872,030


  • #2
    The big blind is well within his rights to jam on your opens at a high frequency. With a 6bb stack in the SB, as well as a couple of other stacks smaller than you (UTG+1 and CO), he can exert a huge amount of ICM pressure on you because it's a disaster if you go broke here. When we consider the fact that you're on the BTN and so opening a very wide range anyway, I feel he's playing his spot well.

    What charts are you referring to? Unless they're from a program like ICMizer which take into account all the stacks at the table as well as the payout implications I would say they are meaningless at best, and highly damaging at worst.

    Here's what your push/fold strategy should be:

    Click image for larger version

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    What we can see here is that you should be shoving a tight range of just 88+, ATs+, AJo+. 33 is nowhere near this.

    The 0.1 min EV diff I assigned is based on Jonathan Little's recommendation in the tournament masterclass. I've heard that Matt Affleck uses a 0.2 diff so his range would be even tighter, just shoving: TT+, AQs+, AK.

    This is based on a payout in a typical 300 man MTT which I believe is roughly the tournament you were in.

    I actually played a €1,500 guarantee €5 rebuy on iPoker yesterday, I wonder if we crossed paths

    Comment


    • kkep
      kkep commented
      Editing a comment
      The 0.1 min EV diff I assigned is based on Jonathan Little's recommendation in the tournament masterclass. I've heard that Matt Affleck uses a 0.2 diff so his range would be even tighter, just shoving: TT+, AQs+, AK.


      Matt just did some ICM Webinars the past two weeks. I *think* he even mentioned .40 at some point at the FT. I have to watch it again because I'm unsure if he likes .2 after the bubble and before the FT. He may have also mentioned that the FT was weak and not ICM aware so he broaden is edge. Or I might be misremembering...I usually go over them again on Saturday's but I've not had the chance yet.

      I do remember that we aren't doing much jamming even with 88 and sometimes not 99 so that looks spot on to me. Obviously there are spots we get to jam any two as well....
      Last edited by kkep; 06-06-2021, 08:32 AM.

    • kkep
      kkep commented
      Editing a comment
      So the lower your skill level or edge at the table the more spots we want to take, breakeven spots are often even better. The bigger your skill edge the more you want to decrease your variance because the bigger skill edge you have the more likely you are to generate chips in future situations

  • #3
    Using the charts on this site says pocket 3s are a shove but obviously on this occasion it wasn't. I was playing the 11am game on grosvenor. Soft field, cheap game

    Comment


    • LondonImp
      LondonImp commented
      Editing a comment
      As far as I'm aware, all the charts on the site are outside of any payout implications.

  • #4
    Actually at 25bb deep the gto charts of the site give 22-33 and A8o as allins.But these are nowhere near optimal.Sure you are not exploited if you play exactly like the charts but you dont exploit also which is crucial at final table and generally in the game

    Comment

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