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why betting that small on the turn ?

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  • why betting that small on the turn ?

    Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 9 players


    UTG: 1,846 (5 bb)
    UTG+1: 20,327 (51 bb)
    MP: 8,924 (22 bb)
    MP+1: 8,357 (21 bb)
    LP: 13,029 (33 bb)
    CO: 13,613 (34 bb)
    BU: 7,290 (18 bb)
    SB (Hero): 7,084 (18 bb)
    BB: 10,818 (27 bb)

    Pre-Flop: (1,050) Hero is SB with T 3
    5 players fold, CO calls 400, 1 fold, Hero calls 200, BB checks

    Flop: (1,650) J 9 4 (3 players)
    Hero bets 413, BB calls 413, CO calls 413

    Turn: (2,889) Q (3 players)
    Hero bets 1,600, BB folds, CO raises to 4,000, Hero calls 2,400

    River: (10,889) 8 (2 players)
    Hero bets 2,221 (all-in), CO calls 2,221

    Total pot: 15,331

    Showdown:
    SB (Hero) shows T 3 (a straight, Eight to Queen)
    (Equity - Pre-Flop: 36%, Flop: 17%, Turn: 32%, River: 100%)

    CO shows 9 Q (two pair, Queens and Nines)
    (Equity - Pre-Flop: 64%, Flop: 83%, Turn: 68%, River: 0%)

    SB (Hero) wins 15,331

    solver says

    preflop limping / filling up the sb is correct


    on the flop donking is wrong , checking first in is the play to go

    if donking were correct it were the optimal size i choosed

    i think donking were better if i had at least 1 overcard

    on the turn this is a check 73% of the time and a bet quarter pot 27% of the time (EV wise indifferent)

    why betting that small on the turn if you want to bet ?

    is this because the board has drastically changed ?

    is this because i will never have the nut advantage with this turn vs the LP player ?



    when getting raised on the turn this is a 100% call no other option at all !

    you just cannot fold away this many equity

    and going allin doesnt make sence since you have no fold equity

    on the river go allin 66% of the time and check 34 % of the time : )



  • #2
    Looks a little strange to me

    Comment


    • #3
      Why is that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Somehow I missed this in earlier reviews of the forum.

        But the small is a range bet on the turn. The Qc gives your range more equity as well as this particular hand. Therefore, you should be betting often on this turn and when you bet often, you tend to be smaller.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bet sizing is definitely a technical skill that must be mastered. The solvers give us a better insight on how much to bet based on board texture and our hand grouping within our range. Attempting to replicate this strategy will maximize our profitability.

          Comment


          • #6
            Makes perfect sense.A late position limper with these stacks will be well behind on this flop,his call just screams something weak that will fold easily later to an overcard or if the board gets more wet. and since he just calls then you definitely bet the turn small and frequently because this turn card cripples his calling range on the flop(not results oriented).Also the smaller bet lures him in and keeps all the weaker hands in play and sets you up to a nicer shove on river.The big turn bet finally will make the opponent play perfectly here because it makes it so easy for him to fold his junk and call or shove his premium hands(as he did).
            Also something i would like to ask is why do you just call his raise on the turn and keep just 2000 chips on 10k pot for the river?Do you intend to fold the river if you dont hit anything?Because if there are no icm considerations here like a bubble or prefinal table,then it is wrong not to put the stack allin on the turn
            Last edited by GusP; 05-28-2021, 05:13 AM.

            Comment


            • jjpregler
              jjpregler commented
              Editing a comment
              There is no fold equity to a shove and yes, if you miss, you want to fold. He just has T high. Why put all the chips in now. If you hit they are likely going all in and if you miss you still have 6BBs. It's not much but better than having 0BBs when you miss.

            • GusP
              GusP commented
              Editing a comment
              Certainly there is no fold equity.And tournament survival is very important also(I have won tournament by building a stack from 1bb).But i think there is a line between thinking about survival and maximizing your profits from the pots you play in a tournament.Dont know,that is why i asked if there is something important about the stage of the tournament in this situation
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