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Should I folded pre flop?

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  • Should I folded pre flop?

    I'm UTG deep in a 4.40 bounty builder. Blinds 600/1200 ante 150 about 400 people left nearly at cash (350) 26 BB left I limp in with 5s 5h for 1,200 middle position (21BB) 3 bets to 4,800 its folded around to SB (24BB) who calls. bit of context middle position is a very tight player and hasn't played a lot of hands being on the table for less than 30 min so I hadn't see him play, so when he raised I was a bit hesitate to call because I knew he would have a big pocket pair. So waiting for my turn I was going fold but when the SB also called who was a reasonable good player I decided to call because I figured he would have a lot of middle positions outs and if I didn't hit my 5 I could go away feeling at least I saw the flop and that would ease my mind. Flop comes 8d 5c 6h me and SB check back to pre flop raiser bets 7,800 SB folds then I check raise to 15,600, middle position goes all in for 21,102, I call 5,502 more. middle position turns over As Ad then we see the turn and the river which runs out Ah 4s he wins set over set. I just wanted to know if I made the right decision buy calling the raise? In those tournaments I see a lot of people go all in and raise with a lot less, so I just wanted peoples thoughts on the matter.

  • #2
    Hi buddy,

    Welcome to the forum

    I think the call is okay, you are getting good enough implied odds.

    What was not okay was limping preflop. With the SB being the exception, it's far more profitable to use a pure raise/fold strategy if you have the chance to open the pot. Limping, over time, will lose you a lot of time. Kick it out of your game immediately and you will see improvements.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think 55 with 21 BBs from MP is awfully awkward.

      I can see OP's logic for limping, even though it seems generally bad to limp with that stack size. If he raises and doesn't win immediately, all kinds of bad stuff is gonna happen, so it's basically turning the hand into a bluff if you don't want any action.

      I guess I'd make it 2.5x and then cross my fingers. If I get called or 3-bet, it would depend on a bunch of other factors which way to go, but probably none of the scenarios are too exciting.

      Comment


      • onlymtt438
        onlymtt438 commented
        Editing a comment
        strictly speaking , folding 55 preflop might be preferable. But I like Fletch's response.

      • LondonImp
        LondonImp commented
        Editing a comment
        It's bad to limp with any stack size, except from the BB.

        2.5x is too big an open size for only 21bb. I only min-open at this size but you could go up to 2.25bb.

    • #4
      limping has its use, maybe not in this case the way he did it.

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by onlymtt438 View Post
        limping has its use, maybe not in this case the way he did it.
        Can you give an example?

        Comment


        • #6
          LondonImp don't forget the SB has a limping range as wide as 75% deep stacked. Open limping from any other position is really bad unless you actually studied and developed a limping range. I think I heard JL say one time that it's incredibly difficult but some top pros have a limping range. But he strongly advises against it.

          I wrote this big long explanation about why open limping is bad and at the end I filtered my DB for some concrete evidence. I think that's all I need to show you.

          40BB effective + When I face an open limp and raise them which I try to do relentlessly. My all-in Adj BB/100 is a whooping 312BB.

          Comment


          • LondonImp
            LondonImp commented
            Editing a comment
            What is your normal Adj BB/100 when you raise but don't specify limpers?

          • kkep
            kkep commented
            Editing a comment
            RFI My all-in Adj BB/100 - 153 so I make more than 2x more when there are limpers in ahead of me

        • #7
          I think you guys are too much theory. We're not playing against likes of mr.little. Your database is how you play and what you play. Interpreting stats is separate skill.

          Comment


          • #8
            Limping is a mostly a huge error but feel free to keep on keeping on.

            Comment


            • onlymtt438
              onlymtt438 commented
              Editing a comment
              alternative fact ?

          • #9
            how can limping be huge mistake? you don't know what your opponent does when you limp, nor do you know what you do in turn. He doesn't know what. you limp, why you limp. Huge mistake to lose 1BB at minimum. You learn from Mr. little that limping is generally bad. If you ever play against mr. little himself, I bet he limp on you a lot. You didn't learn what to do against limping from him.
            Last edited by onlymtt438; 11-25-2020, 11:20 PM.

            Comment


            • onlymtt438
              onlymtt438 commented
              Editing a comment
              agree to disagree, right ? tell you this because you've been forthcoming, you're the ideal type to limp against.

            • LondonImp
              LondonImp commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm not sure that someone who has spent a lot of time studying how to exploit limpers using well-balanced isolation raising ranges is the ideal type to limp against, but yeah, let's agree to disagree.

            • onlymtt438
              onlymtt438 commented
              Editing a comment
              you don't isolate me, buddy. you being isolated.
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